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Post by Telso on Sept 11, 2018 1:45:03 GMT 10
Yeah, I fully agree how the term "Rock" got extremely bizarrly used in the 2010s, which is also another big difference with the 2000s where the label was still used straightforwardly. Besides "Thunder", the most baffling example has to be this one:
There's really literally nothing Rock about this. There's one set of drums being played on the chorus (not very obviously at that since it's drown in the production), but otherwise it is fully beat-driven and Hip Hop-derivated. The vocalist even raps on the song. The first time I heard this I really thought it's one of those sad white pop-rappers along the lines of Machine Gun Kelly or Logic.
But apparently it's rock enough to chart #1 on the Billboard rock charts. Even Wikipedia considers this as "Rap Rock". How can this be considered in the same category as Red Hot Chili Peppers and Limp Bizkit? Even "99 Problems" by Jay-Z is more Rap Rock than this.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Sept 11, 2018 11:33:29 GMT 10
I feel as though Awolnation's "I Am" is a good representation of rock music in the 2010s. It's an anthemic production which incorporates elements of indie and electronica. This was never a Top-40 hit, although it did receive extensive airplay on my * local (it's a Sydney station, but I can receive it from my location) rock station at the time of it's release. "I Am" would have to be one of my favourite songs of this decade. I really like the atmospheric feel to it. Yeah, I fully agree how the term "Rock" got extremely bizarrly used in the 2010s, which is also another big difference with the 2000s where the label was still used straightforwardly. I wonder why that has been the case though? Is it simply because guitar-driven rock music fell out of the mainstream around the start of the decade or something else entirely? Even if it was the former, it still doesn't explain why people's perception of rock music has drastically changed. Yep, I agree with you in regards to "Stressed Out". A lot of people out there do regard it as being a "rock" song though, even to the extent of comparing it to the work of Linkin Park.
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Post by al on Sept 11, 2018 11:36:39 GMT 10
Meanwhile in Country, we have music that would most likely be considered rock in any other decade, but can't successfully be marketed there.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Sept 11, 2018 13:29:37 GMT 10
Meanwhile in Country, we have music that would most likely be considered rock in any other decade, but can't successfully be marketed there. In a way, it's almost as if country has compensated for rock's diminished presence in the mainstream. If rock still had a heavy presence on Top-40 radio, I very much doubt that there would be as many country songs which straddle the boundaries between the two genres. It's interesting to hear about the genre's current state anyway. I'm personally not a fan of Country music, although I have noticed in recent times that the genre has intertwined with pop/rock in an effort to make inroads into the mainstream. For instance, Keith Urban's collaboration with Carrie Underwood became a massive Top-40 hit back in 2016. Then, of course, there was "Body Like a Back Road" by Sam Hunt in the second-half of last year.
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Post by al on Sept 12, 2018 9:43:46 GMT 10
Don't even get me started on Body Like a Back Road lol Country as a genre has historically had some self-deprecating flair, essentially recognizing itself as uncool or behind. Though at the same time, there has also been this element of striving, as if interjecting some new sounds, if not deviating altogether, somehow represents rising up in society. Sonically, one may attract new listeners who would otherwise dismiss them as twangy and therefore unappealing. Many artists have been guilty over the years, though Taylor Swift has now trumped them all. Despite expanding their reach, formerly country artists can in the meantime abandon their fan base, leaving them with feelings of betrayal, as if they're forgotten old friends left back home. Since the dawn of commercial country music, it has gradually been influenced more and more by other genres. This is fine and normal in my opinion, to a point, though some purists would disagree, related to the abandonment of tradition in favor of something bigger and better. It is in these engrained attitudes that makes it easy for country to see stars somewhere else probably more than in any other genre. You could argue however that it was sometime in the early 10's that country really started to lose its flavor, largely due to excessive drum loops, loss or mere novelty use of traditional instruments, and too many party songs. While pop and hip hop may have made the bigger impact, heavy guitars have certainly made their way into some of the decade's most popular songs. Personally I quite enjoy "country rock" when done well. I think they've always been close relatives and that it intuitively makes sense to borrow instruments and lyrical content from each other. There are a decent number of bands dedicated to doing this, like Blackberry Smoke. But it is unusual to this era how heavier sounds have been in instances disguised as country. Bands like The Eagles, or John Mellencamp, were typically put under the rock umbrella, which perhaps became a bit of a catchall around the 70's, whereas country always ran more niche. Maybe rock got a little too inclusive and grew too difficult to define, which is fast happening to indie, and maybe even country itself. But this all begs the question, why now? Where did this come from all of a sudden? I got into this a bit in a different thread, but I do believe there's an element of the former mainstream rock listeners needing somewhere to go. And there needed to be somewhere for rock musicians to go. The Bon Jovi fans, the Nickelback fans; yes laugh now but there have been tons of them. Country was already playing around with rock influences at the time of rock's own demise and in need of some fresh blood, so in a way, it did seem to create a perfect storm. Alas, there is one song that was a huge summer hit in the late 00's that seemed to solidify the melding of mainstream American rock with country:
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Post by al on Sept 16, 2018 3:43:15 GMT 10
There's something about the arrangement here, or maybe it's the distortion, that brings the song more into this decade versus sounding stuck in last. While still remaining identifiably in the rock genre.
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Post by Telso on Sept 16, 2018 4:12:07 GMT 10
There's something about the arrangement here, or maybe it's the distortion, that brings the song more into this decade versus sounding stuck in last. While still remaining identifiably in the rock genre. Yeah, those arrangements remind me of "Sail" by Awolnation, another song I would call "quintessentially 2010s rock song": One of the biggest sleeper hits of all time.
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Post by al on Sept 18, 2018 4:12:23 GMT 10
What genre would this even be called? At another time it probably would have been soft rock. Now what, indie hipster? Regardless, I think "Sedona" screams 10's folk revival.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Sept 19, 2018 23:26:30 GMT 10
What genre would this even be called? At another time it probably would have been soft rock. Now what, indie hipster? Regardless, I think "Sedona" screams 10's folk revival. My initial reaction upon listening to it was that it was an indie-rock song. The issue is that "Sedona" could quite easily fit under the "soft rock" and "folk rock" labels as well and no one would ever question it. If I had to peg it down to a category, however, I would lean more towards "indie rock". I think the "soft rock" label is a little too non-definitive and the song notably incorporates influences from the Hipster scene. Again, it just highlights how ambiguous rock music is. There's really no right or wrong answer as to which sub-genre it belongs to because, in a general sense, it belongs to all three. It's hard to say and i'm not sure if there's a definitive reason for it. Rock is still thriving in the underground, despite it's notable absence from the Top-40 mainstream, so it really makes you wonder why country transformed itself in the manner it did. Commercial country music very well could have still survived in the mainstream without catering for the former mainstream rock listeners. I'm not sure if rock's inclusivity can really be held responsible for it's initial decline in the mainstream, because the genre has been stylistically diverse for several decades and there were several sub-genres of rock even when it was in it's creative peak. However, on the other hand, the ambiguity of the "rock" label has held the genre back from making inroads back into the mainstream, meaning that rock has essentially becoming a victim of it's own musical output. I do agree that it was a culmination of events which led to the demise of rock and the current state of country music. However, I actually think the primary reason for both of those events is due to the overall transformation of the music industry, rather than just a general progression of each genre. It's not a coincidence that traditional instruments (e.g guitar, drums) have generally declined while streaming services and other digital technologies have concurrently advanced. This has led to a greater emphasis on image/style over substance, as the world is becoming increasingly revolved around click-bait headlines and image-based stimuli. It's likely that country musicians are collectively trying to incorporate rock elements into their music simply in an effort to market the genre to the masses, the same cohort of people who choose to listen to the over-polished, generic EDM and mumble-rap on the Top-40 charts. The traditional niche nature of country music can leave people feeling quite divided and by incorporating elements/influences that the public are likely to be familiar with, it ensures greater record sales for the song and the artist/band. A country song with pop/rock sensibilities would also be far more enticing to a major record label, as they are likely to get a better investment out of their marketing. Unfortunately, we live in an era where stream counts/marketability far outweigh the artistic merits of a song. Even if a song such as "Hey Jude" or "Waterloo Sunset" were to be released today, it likely wouldn't ever make it into the mainstream, as the song would not be deemed as marketable by the record label. Yet, someone could release the worst possible thing imaginable and their song would take precedence, as long as the artist is physically good looking and has no creative control of their image/music. That's why it's increasingly harder for new artists to breakthrough into the mainstream; record labels prefer to market an artist whom they already have creative control over rather than an unknown entity. Eminem is still relevant for that exact reason. I personally think rock and country music could still exist in their traditional forms if it wasn't for the music industry's change in focus. Rock was reportedly the most consumed music genre in the United States back in 2015, so it just goes to show that both genres still have mass appeal (even if it outside the realms of the mainstream).
al likes this
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2018 2:31:04 GMT 10
most Indie rock songs from this decade sound extremely 2010s. These are a couple which I think sound quintessentially 2010s: Those songs would be regarded as "rock" from a 2018 context, but in previous decades, they never would have been associated with the rock label at all. As you pointed out, rock (as a collective genre) has become so unrefined over time and it's diminished presence in the mainstream has only further blurred the boundaries between "what is" or "what isn't" rock. Quite honestly, there's a lot of songs that have become hits this decade which I don't think should be regarded as rock. For instance, I've come across a few sources which categorise 5 Second of Summer's "Youngblood" as a pop-rock song, which I think is ridiculous. The only element of that song which even remotely resembles rock is the thumping guitar chords in the chorus. That's basically it. Probably the most severe examples of this include songs such as these... Just because you have like one guitar layer doesn't put you in the same category as AC/DC or the Rolling Stones. You gotta especially love how the "Moves Like Jagger" video shows the drummer of Maroon 5, even though the beat is a 100% synthetic EDM loop. What? Neither of these songs are categorized as Rock. "Thunder" is Synth-pop and "Moves Like Jagger" is EDM/Electropop.
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Post by #Infinity on Sept 20, 2018 4:14:33 GMT 10
most Indie rock songs from this decade sound extremely 2010s. These are a couple which I think sound quintessentially 2010s: Probably the most severe examples of this include songs such as these... Just because you have like one guitar layer doesn't put you in the same category as AC/DC or the Rolling Stones. You gotta especially love how the "Moves Like Jagger" video shows the drummer of Maroon 5, even though the beat is a 100% synthetic EDM loop. What? Neither of these songs are categorized as Rock. "Thunder" is Synth-pop and "Moves Like Jagger" is EDM/Electropop. Too bad, because “Thunder” plays constantly on alternative rock stations and “Moves Like Jagger” still features the band playing their instruments in the video.
longaotian likes this
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Post by Telso on Sept 20, 2018 6:12:23 GMT 10
"Thunder" also went #1 on the Billboard Hot Rock Songs and #2 on the Rock Airplay charts.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Sept 20, 2018 9:43:17 GMT 10
"Thunder" also went #1 on the Billboard Hot Rock Songs and #2 on the Rock Airplay charts. There's very little criteria for songs to be eligible to chart on the Billboard Rock Charts though. For instance, Twenty One Pilot's new single, "Nico and the Niners", is also on the Billboard Hot Rock Chart and it's a reggae-rap song.
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Post by al on Sept 21, 2018 8:19:38 GMT 10
This was a decent hit last summer, kept in circulation by a Blue Moon commercial. Interesting to hear horns coming back in fashion.
I cannot remember if this theory has been bounced around already, but is it possible that the concept of "classic rock" is still inhibiting the embrace of newer rock music?
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Post by SharksFan99 on Sept 21, 2018 11:40:38 GMT 10
most Indie rock songs from this decade sound extremely 2010s. These are a couple which I think sound quintessentially 2010s: Yeah, I agree with your choice of selections. Those songs are unmistakedly 2010s. This was a decent hit last summer, kept in circulation by a Blue Moon commercial. Interesting to hear horns coming back in fashion. I cannot remember if this theory has been bounced around already, but is it possible that the concept of "classic rock" is still inhibiting the embrace of newer rock music? This is my first time ever hearing that song. It's not too bad. I personally have my doubts, to be honest. The concept of "classic rock" has existed since the '90s (possibly even earlier than that) and rock music was still driving forward as a genre at the time. People will always look favourably on songs from the past, but i'm not sure if people's sense of nostalgia is actually responsible for rock being in the state that it is currently in.
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