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Post by al on Dec 18, 2018 13:23:50 GMT 10
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Post by SharksFan99 on Dec 18, 2018 20:19:00 GMT 10
To be honest, i'm not sure if anyone is really at fault here. I think it's just an unfortunate case of people having conflicting opinions over a sensitive subject matter and as a result, the assignment has been taken completely out of context. I certainly don't believe the teacher deserves to lose his job over the incident.
As much as people may not like to accept it, the KKK played a significant part in the development of American society after the Civil War. The KKK's actions were a reflection of the social attitudes at the turn of the 20th Century; many people genuinely shared the same values of the KKK. You can't rewrite history and pretend that the events of the past, both good and bad, did not happen. Recognise the past, but learn from our mistakes.
I would like to stress that i'm not suggesting that the subject matter of the speech was appropriate. It was insensitive on the students' part and the teacher's response to the girl certainly could have been handled better. However, I don't think you can lay blame on the students for choosing to focus on a group who were apart of US history. They followed the rules of the assignment, that being to use events from the Reconstruction Era in a Christmas carol. Should they have picked the KKK? No. However, I am skeptical that the students picked the KKK with the intention of being racist.
Lastly, I think it's great that the girl who filmed the video felt the need to share the speech on social media. This, to me, only emphasises the positive progress that society has made in regards to racial equality over the past several decades. Her actions need to be commended, not shunned.
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Post by al on Dec 25, 2018 15:07:07 GMT 10
When I first heard about this story, I honestly expected to be mad at the kids. "What tools," was my first thought. But it kind of does seem like a big misunderstanding. I totally get why it was scary for people to hear those words in the video, as it's clear we still have race issues in this country and there really are people out there who continue to think that way. However, I do think the boys are genuine in stating their hatred of the KKK and that their lyrics were meant to highlight the ridiculousness that is the organization. Their biggest mistake was essentially writing it from a first person perspective.
It's unfortunate this all had to happen, but I can also reasonably see how it did. History cannot be taught without these somber and horrific subjects. Yes this assignment ended up being a dud, though it is understandable why a teacher might to design them to be engaging. The students likely were trying to create a comedic farce on the subject, a la "Django", that obviously was unsuccessful. I think, however, that there is an important conversation to open from this event: Is there an "acceptable" way to be addressing these topics? Not just in school, but in comedy and culture as well. Are films and shows like SNL allowed to parody the gruesome past if it's clear they are in the comedy genre? Are only certain people allowed? There may be an intuitive notion of what is crossing the line, but that is forever changing as our society does, and makes it difficult to punish someone over when it has not been clearly drawn out. I don't think we'll ever come to have any exact rules, but a general consensus may be possible.
As for the teacher, well umm, he was my teacher. Not for History 11, so I don't have personal experience with the assignment. I think he's a good teacher and a good person who genuinely did not mean any harm to come out of this. I know we're in an era of calling everybody out, throwing everybody out, etc., but I do not think that would be appropriate here. He is definitely a laid back teacher who doesn't like assigning "boring" work. You will have quirky projects in his class, that for many students, helps them to actually remember the material. Much of it will be heavy and glum, yet he remains upbeat in his teaching. So I think this is really where we have to ask if this approach is acceptable, and all of the time. I have been in my share of classrooms where discussions have gotten heated and students have been uncomfortable; something bound to happen in social studies. But what is too much? For at least a temporary solution, I don't think it would be the worst idea for teachers to review lessons together regarding these subjects, just to get some input on where it could go wrong. We seem to be in a day in age where the best thing we can do is simply ask each other. "Hey, does this bother you?" "Is this offensive?" And when enough say yes, to respect that.
Side note: I find it interesting which articles side with which perspective.
SharksFan99 likes this
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Post by SharksFan99 on Dec 27, 2018 21:31:11 GMT 10
When I first heard about this story, I honestly expected to be mad at the kids. "What tools," was my first thought. But it kind of does seem like a big misunderstanding. I totally get why it was scary for people to hear those words in the video, as it's clear we still have race issues in this country and there really are people out there who continue to think that way. However, I do think the boys are genuine in stating their hatred of the KKK and that their lyrics were meant to highlight the ridiculousness that is the organization. Their biggest mistake was essentially writing it from a first person perspective. It's unfortunate this all had to happen, but I can also reasonably see how it did. History cannot be taught without these somber and horrific subjects. Yes this assignment ended up being a dud, though it is understandable why a teacher might to design them to be engaging. The students likely were trying to create a comedic farce on the subject, a la "Django", that obviously was unsuccessful. I think, however, that there is an important conversation to open from this event: Is there an "acceptable" way to be addressing these topics? Not just in school, but in comedy and culture as well. Are films and shows like SNL allowed to parody the gruesome past if it's clear they are in the comedy genre? Are only certain people allowed? There may be an intuitive notion of what is crossing the line, but that is forever changing as our society does, and makes it difficult to punish someone over when it has not been clearly drawn out. I don't think we'll ever come to have any exact rules, but a general consensus may be possible. As for the teacher, well umm, he was my teacher. Not for History 11, so I don't have personal experience with the assignment. I think he's a good teacher and a good person who genuinely did not mean any harm to come out of this. I know we're in an era of calling everybody out, throwing everybody out, etc., but I do not think that would be appropriate here. He is definitely a laid back teacher who doesn't like assigning "boring" work. You will have quirky projects in his class, that for many students, helps them to actually remember the material. Much of it will be heavy and glum, yet he remains upbeat in his teaching. So I think this is really where we have to ask if this approach is acceptable, and all of the time. I have been in my share of classrooms where discussions have gotten heated and students have been uncomfortable; something bound to happen in social studies. But what is too much? For at least a temporary solution, I don't think it would be the worst idea for teachers to review lessons together regarding these subjects, just to get some input on where it could go wrong. We seem to be in a day in age where the best thing we can do is simply ask each other. "Hey, does this bother you?" "Is this offensive?" And when enough say yes, to respect that. Side note: I find it interesting which articles side with which perspective. Me too, that was my initial reaction upon first reading about it. I think most people would instantly blame the kids if they didn't know the full extent of the story. All it would take is for someone to read the part about the kids delivering the speech to their classmates and those two kids are suddenly the worst people in the world. It's hypocritical, but easy to see why given the circumstances. I think the newspaper article should have addressed whether or not the class had to deliver their speeches from a 1st person perspective. I know it's only a minor point of interest, but it really changes the whole circumstances if the detail had actually been covered in the article. For instance, if the teacher had instructed the kids that they had to deliver the speech from a 1st-person perspective, then it only supports the case about the two kids not being in the wrong. I very much doubt that this story would have made headlines had the speech been told from a 3rd-person perspective. It would completely change the whole context of the story. With all that aside, I personally don't think there is an acceptable way to address these topics. I'm sorry, but how can there be when we all naturally have varying opinions and morals over what is and what isn't appropriate? You're never going to please everyone unfortunately and someone will always find something to take offence over. I mean, we're living in an age where the words "male" and "female" are being phased out on the grounds that they're sexist, for god's sake. "Gingerbread men" are now "Gingerbread people", "baa, baa black sheep" is now "baa, baa rainbow sheep". However, in saying all that, I do think these topics need to be presented/taught within reason. The truth needs to be told, no doubt, but there shouldn't be an underlying personal bias which results in historical inaccuracies or important pieces of information which are left untold. A Caucasian individual with conservative, right-wing values shouldn't use racial stereotypes to degrade African-Americans when describing the events of the civil-rights movement, for instance. You can describe the way in which many African-Americans were treated during that time, that's fine. However, it shouldn't be presented in a way that evokes a sense of hatred or disapproval of African-Americans in a current context. In any case, I don't think we, as a society, will ever reach a general consensus on how we should handle sensitive and complex topics, as it just simply won't ever be possible. In the case of racial tensions in the US and the actions of the KKK, I think the truth does need to be told. The truth can be upsetting, but that's just apart of life. You can't wrap these kids in cotton wool and pretend that violent and gruesome things didn't happen in the past. They should be taught about everything that happened. If there's any benefit to come out of it, it's that the current generation of kids will realise the mistakes of the past and become encouraged to spur social change. They can lead our society forward into the future. Anyhow, it's interesting to hear that he was your teacher! It's also encouraging to hear that he is genuinely a good person who did not mean any harm. It must be really strange for you to see your former teacher and school making headlines in the media!  Yeah, I do agree with the idea that teachers should review lessons collaboratively and reach a consensus on how lessons should be taught in class. It wouldn't do any harm and it would certainly avoid instances such as this from ever happening again!
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Yeah, I do agree with the idea that teachers should review lessons collaboratively and reach a consensus on how lessons should be taught in class. It wouldn't do any harm and it would certainly avoid instances such as this from ever happening again!