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Post by SharksFan99 on Jun 12, 2019 11:02:10 GMT 10
To anyone who is in favour of abortion, I would highly suggest watching the movie Juno. I had to watch it for English when I was in Year 9 and it really changed my viewpoint on the debate.
It's clear that abortion is obviously a very controversial debate and there are valid reasons to both sides of the argument. I'm still of the opinion that abortion should only be acceptable in circumstances where the mother has been the victim of rape or a sexual assault, but that's just me. I personally have no sympathy for people who decide to abort otherwise healthy pregnancies. I'm sorry, but if you decide to abort a pregnancy simply on the basis that you don't "want it", you deserve to be ridiculed and condoned for your actions. That simply isn't a good enough reason to decide not to go through with a birth.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 11:27:48 GMT 10
To anyone who is in favour of abortion, I would highly suggest watching the movie Juno. I had to watch it for English when I was in Year 9 and it really changed my viewpoint on the debate. It's clear that abortion is obviously a very controversial debate and there are valid reasons to both sides of the argument. I'm still of the opinion that abortion should only be acceptable in circumstances where the mother has been the victim of rape or a sexual assault, but that's just me. I personally have no sympathy for people who decide to abort otherwise healthy pregnancies. I'm sorry, but if you decide to abort a pregnancy simply on the basis that you don't "want it", you deserve to be ridiculed and condoned for your actions. That simply isn't a good enough reason to decide not to go through with a birth. Juno? The Michael Cera comedy? How did that change your mind, if you don't mind me asking? If I remember correctly, she decided not to abort her fetus after learning that fetuses have fingernails, which I'm pretty certain the audience was meant to laugh at. I still don't understand pro-lifers making rape exceptions. I am pro-choice but I am also pro-logical consistency. If abortion is supposed to be murder, then why is it okay for a mother to murder her child just because of who their father is (something the child has no control over)? The moral implications are untenable.
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Post by smartboi on Jun 12, 2019 13:11:52 GMT 10
This is officially the abortion/Michael Cera discussion thread.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Jun 12, 2019 14:33:59 GMT 10
Juno? The Michael Cera comedy? How did that change your mind, if you don't mind me asking? If I remember correctly, she decided not to abort her fetus after learning that fetuses have fingernails, which I'm pretty certain the audience was meant to laugh at. I still don't understand pro-lifers making rape exceptions. I am pro-choice but I am also pro-logical consistency. If abortion is supposed to be murder, then why is it okay for a mother to murder her child just because of who their father is (something the child has no control over)? The moral implications are untenable. Before I watched that movie, I didn't have a strong opinion on abortion either way. It's not something I ever though much about. Watching Juno, however, really made me realise how life is so fickle and people can make decisions without thinking about the consequences it can have on others. Juno may be a comedy, but it has an important underlying theme to it; life should be cherished. That's why I am pro-life. True, a fetus isn't a functionally independent human being, but at the end of the day, they ultimately develop into people and you're still inevitably not giving someone a chance at life by terminating a pregnancy. I can see the point you're making, however in this instance, I think it boils down to the psychological well-being of the mother. I don't agree with enforcing a blanket ban on abortions, because I think it would set a dangerous precedent over the way in which mental health and women's rights are treated. If abortion was banned outright, it would indirectly give sexual predators the motivation to assault/rape any woman they wish, as they would be aware (in such a scenario) that the woman would have to live with the permanent reminders of the horrific ordeal. That's something which would, in many cases, give the sexual offender pleasure. The victim of the sexual assault would ultimately be punished more than the offender himself. Yes, the offender would be sentenced to jail over their actions, but that pales in comparison to the traumatic ordeal that the victim would have went through (both before and after the pregnancy). It's a horrible thought, but there a lot of scumbag men out there. Women shouldn't be "used". If a woman has been the victim of a sexual assault, they have every right to make the decision to terminate the pregnancy. I personally think the mental well-being of the mother should take precedence over the life of the fetus in that instance. The reason why I don't have that mindset over other circumstances revolving around abortion, is because in most cases, the mother has the choice not to conceive a baby in the first place. It's not like every boyfriend or husband out there forces their girlfriend/wife to fall pregnant. Women and couples in general need to take responsibility for their actions. Don't have unprotected sex if you're not ready to fall pregnant.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2019 1:28:26 GMT 10
Rainbow, what about women like me who have mental health issues?
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Post by al on Jun 14, 2019 0:24:41 GMT 10
I agree third semester abortions are more morally fraught than first/second trimester abortions, but I think for someone to decide to get an abortion that late there must have been very extra strenuous circumstances, such as discovering the fetus has an illness that will make them impossible to care for, or danger to the mother's health, etc. And I trust doctors to decide whether that makes an abortion 'worth it' so to speak as opposed to politicians. I do agree, but at least in my area, this is already common practice. In fact, I know of someone who recently had a full term baby with heart problems, and they asked her if she wanted them to pull the plug after birth. (She said no and was pretty offended, but that’s a different story.) Life saving measures (or the prevention of serious suffering) I don’t think should even be in the same category as abortion. But I do think in the case where a live and healthy birth can be performed, it’s more ethical to be attempted. Especially since it’s not like an abortion wouldn’t be quite invasive at this point anyway. This is part of the “can of worms” I mentioned earlier, where it makes me nervous in regards to care. If it’s okay to abort say, a healthy 35 weeker, is it okay to harm a healthy preemie? Of course we’re assuming a live birth is what makes the difference, however I still think it leaves a lot of room for ambiguity. This is where I would ask, “Are the child and the mother expected to survive?”
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2019 13:38:24 GMT 10
Before I watched that movie, I didn't have a strong opinion on abortion either way. It's not something I ever though much about. Watching Juno, however, really made me realise how life is so fickle and people can make decisions without thinking about the consequences it can have on others. Juno may be a comedy, but it has an important underlying theme to it; life should be cherished. That's why I am pro-life. True, a fetus isn't a functionally independent human being, but at the end of the day, they ultimately develop into people and you're still inevitably not giving someone a chance at life by terminating a pregnancy. After watching the fictional movie Juno, you could have watched the reality show 16 and Pregnant which aired not long afterwards. It might have swung the pendulum the other way So it's justifiable to murder an innocent person to protect your psychological well-being? I'm not sure you'll find any real-life analogues of that kind of reasoning. That men will have more control over women comes with the banning abortion territory. A man could end up being abusive after the woman has already become pregnant. Men can easily leave women mid-pregnancy and leave them high and dry to carry the burden of childcare. There are millions of ways this can go and does go in countries that have outlawed abortion (notice it is all Muslim countries and African/LatAm countries with terrible women's rights records). I don't get why there should be an exception for rape, especially knowing the father will go to prison and the mother can just give the baby away for adoption like everyone else, unlike other forms of non-rape pregnancies where an awful man can still very much remain a part of the mother's life. That sounds more like to me that you're moralizing unprotected sex and not abortion itself. You do know that even if you have protected sex you can still get pregnant, right?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2019 4:52:15 GMT 10
This is officially the abortion/Michael Cera discussion thread. He was legit my favourite actor circa 2007-2011
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Post by smartboi on Jun 16, 2019 6:23:42 GMT 10
This is officially the abortion/Michael Cera discussion thread. He was legit my favourite actor circa 2007-2011 Yeah I especially loved him in Arrested Development and Superbad.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2019 1:47:08 GMT 10
So it's justifiable to murder an innocent person to protect your psychological well-being? I'm not sure you'll find any real-life analogues of that kind of reasoning. Those with no psychological problems just don't understand. It is perfectly justifiable in my book as it would be better for the child. Better for it to go and not feel anything than to be born to a mother who doesn't want it and cannot cope with it and consequently ends up battering it. If I had to cope with a screaming brat, I would hurl it through the nearest window.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2019 4:58:21 GMT 10
So it's justifiable to murder an innocent person to protect your psychological well-being? I'm not sure you'll find any real-life analogues of that kind of reasoning. Those with no psychological problems just don't understand. It is perfectly justifiable in my book as it would be better for the child. Better for it to go and not feel anything than to be born to a mother who doesn't want it and cannot cope with it and consequently ends up battering it. If I had to cope with a screaming brat, I would hurl it through the nearest window. For the record, I do agree that psychological well-being is as good a reason to abort a fetus as any. I was just taking the "abortion is murder" maxim to its logical conclusion, and it's obviously not a pretty place because the saying is devoid of logic to begin with
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Post by CupidTheStupid on Jun 17, 2019 5:38:05 GMT 10
My stance on abortion is iffy to say the least. Abortion shouldn’t be constant birth control. I agree that birth control should be accessible. At the same time, accidents happen & abortion gives a choice to women who end up in unwanted pregnancies. Protected or not, you risk unwanted pregnancy when you make the decision to have sex. That’s why sexual abstinence is the way to go if you absolutely cannot afford to raise a kid.
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Post by rainbow on Jun 17, 2019 7:20:47 GMT 10
My stance on abortion is iffy to say the least. Abortion shouldn’t be constant birth control. I agree that birth control should be accessible. At the same time, accidents happen & abortion gives a choice to women who end up in unwanted pregnancies. Protected or not, you risk unwanted pregnancy when you make the decision to have sex. That’s why sexual abstinence is the way to go if you absolutely cannot afford to raise a kid. Sexual abstinence doesn't work IMO. Also, birth control pills are about 99.7% effective when they're used correctly. So a pregnancy is extremely rare.
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Post by dount2005 on Jun 17, 2019 8:28:20 GMT 10
Why does there have to be a debate on women's reproductive rights? Seriously? It's a woman's BODY! Let her choose! It's not your baby or body.
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Post by rainbow on Jun 17, 2019 8:38:45 GMT 10
Why does there have to be a debate on women's reproductive rights? Because it's an actual controversial topic. A lot of people don't agree with abortion for many reasons. It's a woman's BODY! Let her choose! It's not your baby or body. That's only your opinion though. There's a good amount of people that think that abortion isn't a woman's right because she is hurting a fetus, or don't think that it's "her body" because the fetus "technically is not her body". That's why it's good to talk about it and understand the other perspective. You never know if something will change your mind.
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