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Post by SharksFan99 on Jun 21, 2019 18:49:11 GMT 10
I'm not sure how many of us here are familiar with The Beatles' discography or are a fan of their work, but I thought it would be interesting to have a topic about one of the biggest "what if?" discussions in popular music.
The Beatles broke up in April of 1970, arguably when they were still at their creative peak. This has fueled fan speculation over the years as to what direction they might have went in if they had continued. Some people believe they would continued down their "back to basics" approach (ala "Let It Be"), while others even believe that they may have dabbled in Disco if they had continued into the Late '70s (which I personally think is ridiculous, but I digress). John Lennon had always said that to get an idea of what The Beatles would have been like if they had of survived into the '70s, you just need to listen to any of their solo albums.
What's your take on this? Do you think they still would have been as popular as they had been in the '60s or do you believe they would have began to decline in popularity? Are there any solo songs which you think "sound" like they could have been Beatles songs?
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Post by SharksFan99 on Jun 21, 2019 19:57:28 GMT 10
I have always been of the belief that The Beatles' output in the Early '70s wouldn't have been too dissimilar to their solo work. Some of the verses and melodies may have been different (as it likely would have been more of a collaborative effort, even though tensions within the band still would have existed), but by and large, I think what we have today is what The Beatles' output would have been like if they had not broke up. Songs such as "Imagine", "My Sweet Lord" and "Instant Karma" still would have existed.
As for their level of popularity, I believe they would have been just as much of a cultural phenomenon during the Early '70s as they had been in the 1960s. I do tend to think though that they would have experienced a decline in popularity around the Mid-Late '70s. Most mainstream acts/artists have a shelf life of about 15 years until they start to underperform commercially. I believe the change in demographics would have caught up with The Beatles eventually, regardless of the quality of their work. Teenagers don't want to like/listen to the same music as their parents in a lot of cases and I think it would have got a point where The Beatles were viewed as being an "old band". They still would have been critically acclaimed and beloved by millions, but their time in the spotlight would have started to come to an end. Nothing lasts forever.
One example of a "Beatles sounding" song I can think of is "Jet" by Paul McCarteny & Wings. This could have easily have been a Beatles song, IMO:
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Post by al on Jun 22, 2019 12:35:38 GMT 10
This is an interesting concept for a thread. Now I'm coming into this not as a particular fan, but I think it's a good the group broke up when it did. With all the great new sounds coming out in the 70's, they likely wouldn't have seemed revolutionary by then, nor likely have the well-respected legacy that they have today. I think they're one of those "leave the people wanting more" cases. I could imagine their music somewhat resembling Elton John's in the 70's. Maybe what is now getting referred to as "yacht rock". Would they have gone more pop-y or embraced acoustic is a toss up for me. I don't see them bringing any gritty factor the way that the Rolling Stones could, which I do think helped carry over their cool factor. I feel like the Beatles attempting disco would've been a disaster we thankfully were all spared from. With the members' personalities and styles growing more distinct as time passed, it's honestly hard to see what could've even been a unifying sound anymore.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Jun 22, 2019 20:33:29 GMT 10
This is an interesting concept for a thread. Now I'm coming into this not as a particular fan, but I think it's a good the group broke up when it did. With all the great new sounds coming out in the 70's, they likely wouldn't have seemed revolutionary by then, nor likely have the well-respected legacy that they have today. I think they're one of those "leave the people wanting more" cases. I could imagine their music somewhat resembling Elton John's in the 70's. Maybe what is now getting referred to as "yacht rock". Would they have gone more pop-y or embraced acoustic is a toss up for me. I don't see them bringing any gritty factor the way that the Rolling Stones could, which I do think helped carry over their cool factor. I feel like the Beatles attempting disco would've been a disaster we thankfully were all spared from. With the members' personalities and styles growing more distinct as time passed, it's honestly hard to see what could've even been a unifying sound anymore. I tend to agree. Personally, I think The Beatles still would have been well-respected today, however they wouldn't have had the "legendary" status which they obtained as a result of their career being prematurely cut-short. It probably was for the best that their career ended when it did. Let It Be is the only Beatles album which quite often receives mixed or negative reviews, so who knows what might have manifested if the tensions within the band had been left to simmer for any longer. Yeah, the "Disco" theory is only popularised by casual music fans who have very little knowledge about popular music or the band itself. It doesn't have any real credibility with most Beatles fans or people with a good general knowledge of the history of music. To be honest, I feel as though The Beatles' music wouldn't have skewed towards any particular style if they had remained together into the '70s. I think they all would have come up with their own unique compositions, all with differing influences and drawing from a wide range of styles. That was always one of the best qualities of The Beatles in the first place. The band was made up of four talented musicians, each with their own strengths and weaknesses, who had come together to create some beautiful, meaningful music which continues to be remembered fondly today. I think they all would have brought something different to the table.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2019 23:45:07 GMT 10
I agree with Al. The Beatles bowed out at the height of their success and were therefore spared the sad decline they might otherwise have experienced. The main genres of the 1970s glam, punk and disco would not have suited them.
I remember the Beatles from their heyday incidentally.
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Post by Telso on Jun 26, 2019 5:16:40 GMT 10
Yeah, I'm glad as well that they broke up at the height of their career, and still "Let it Be" is a pretty disappointing finisher album in my eyes. Not only did they pretty much legendarized their legacy with little seeming dud on the way (unlike the Beach Boys which have released some pretty shoddy material past their 60s peak), but it also let John Lennon in particular to be fully free creatively and releasing some absolutely amazing stuff on his own.
I don't think they would have severely dropped in popularity looking at how huge each individual Beatle member was still in the 70s and 80s. But their new material probably wouldn't have interested that much critically considering how many revolutionary bands came to be after them.
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Post by al on Jun 26, 2019 12:09:35 GMT 10
Yeah, the "Disco" theory is only popularised by casual music fans who have very little knowledge about popular music or the band itself. It doesn't have any real credibility with most Beatles fans or people with a good general knowledge of the history of music. Realistically the most I could ever see the Beatles doing with disco might’ve resembled the Stones’s “Some Girls” album, in that it only mildly dances with the genre (yes, pun intended). Maybe an ELO kinda sound, which incidentally like with “Mr. Blue Sky” people actually confuse as being the Beatles, despite being from 1977. So I don’t know, maybe my saying “disaster” is a little bit harsh, given enough restraint were shown. But what is perhaps a scary thought is the Beatles members not having full artistic licensing and having been forced to record in each 1970’s flavor of the month that appeared commercially viable. While a total sellout version of the band seems almost seems dystopian, it does happen to good artists with bad contracts and well, let’s be happy it didn’t.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Jun 26, 2019 23:01:00 GMT 10
Yeah, I'm glad as well that they broke up at the height of their career, and still "Let it Be" is a pretty disappointing finisher album in my eyes. Not only did they pretty much legendarized their legacy with little seeming dud on the way (unlike the Beach Boys which have released some pretty shoddy material past their 60s peak), but it also let John Lennon in particular to be fully free creatively and releasing some absolutely amazing stuff on his own. I don't think they would have severely dropped in popularity looking at how huge each individual Beatle member was still in the 70s and 80s. But their new material probably wouldn't have interested that much critically considering how many revolutionary bands came to be after them. Yeah, Let It Be would have to be one of my least favourite albums by The Beatles. There are some good tracks on the album (e.g "Two of Us"), but for the most part, it's a sad, underwhelming album to listen to. Just out of curiosity, have you ever watched the "Let It Be" film? It's pretty depressing to watch (as it documents the tensions within the band during the Get Back/Let It Be sessions), however it is an interesting insight into the factors which led to The Beatles breaking up. Watching it makes you realise how incredible it was that they somehow managed to stick together to record Abbey Road! The four of them weren't successful for the entirety of the '70s and '80s though. As a matter of fact, it was only Paul McCartney who sustained a huge level of success during most of that time. George Harrison's Dark Horse was considered a commercial failure when it was released in 1974 and it wasn't until the release of Cloud Nine thirteen years later that he made a significant comeback into the mainstream. Ringo's solo success was mostly confined to the Early '70s; his Disco-orientated Ringo the 4th was so poorly received by critics and fans that it was essentially a "career killer" for him. Even John Lennon experienced varying levels of success before he retired from the music industry in 1975. I still tend to think that there would have been a point in time where The Beatles would have fallen out of favour in the mainstream. They still would have maintained their huge amount of popularity (due to their stature as one of the greatest bands of all time). However, I have my doubts that their post-Early '70s albums and singles would have continued to perform as well commercially as their earlier 60s/Early '70s material. Time would have worked against them eventually. Realistically the most I could ever see the Beatles doing with disco might’ve resembled the Stones’s “Some Girls” album, in that it only mildly dances with the genre (yes, pun intended). Maybe an ELO kinda sound, which incidentally like with “Mr. Blue Sky” people actually confuse as being the Beatles, despite being from 1977. So I don’t know, maybe my saying “disaster” is a little bit harsh, given enough restraint were shown. But what is perhaps a scary thought is the Beatles members not having full artistic licensing and having been forced to record in each 1970’s flavor of the month that appeared commercially viable. While a total sellout version of the band seems almost seems dystopian, it does happen to good artists with bad contracts and well, let’s be happy it didn’t. It's possible that might have happened. I mean, there's no real way of knowing what might have eventuated had The Beatles remained as a collaborative group. Re: The Beatles not having creative control; that wouldn't have happened thankfully, as towards the end of their career, The Beatles actually established their own record label known as "Apple Records".
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2019 20:49:40 GMT 10
Speaking as an avid Beatles fan with an undying love for the band, it never would've worked. Even assuming they could all set aside their differences through the '70s - things were already rather acrimonious by 1967 - as has been said in this thread already, the Beatles never would've survived disco and punk. Punk especially I think would've been their downfall - how can you keep up with that as one of the premier hippie bands?
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Post by SharksFan99 on Jul 7, 2019 21:02:14 GMT 10
Speaking as an avid Beatles fan with an undying love for the band, it never would've worked. Even assuming they could all set aside their differences through the '70s - things were already rather acrimonious by 1967 That's true. Brian Epstein's death was one of the biggest turning points for the band, IMO. He was arguably the key figure who helped keep The Beatles grounded during their touring years and his death in 1967 left a void that was never filled. The other factors (such as Yoko's presence in the studio) which ultimately played a role in the band's break-up still would have eventuated, but had Brian Epstein lived longer and remained as The Beatles' manager/mentor, it makes you wonder how his presence would have had an influence on the relations within the band during their final couple of years.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2019 5:02:51 GMT 10
IIRC, John bringing Yoko into the studio was deliberate. He was trying to get on the others’ nerves and had been trying to break up the band since Beatles for Sale.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Jul 28, 2019 11:03:49 GMT 10
IIRC, John bringing Yoko into the studio was deliberate. He was trying to get on the others’ nerves and had been trying to break up the band since Beatles for Sale. Not sure if I agree with the idea that John had been trying to break up the band since Beatles for Sale. Relations among the band members were generally healthy up until the death of Brian Epstein and even then, it was the rejection of his song "Cold Turkey" that was the real turning point for John and his place in The Beatles.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 23:14:59 GMT 10
He was getting tired of the music industry and the fame as early as Beatles for Sale, with the song Help! literally being a cry for help. He didn't want to be in the band bigger than Jesus anymore. It's covered a little bit in the Anthology documentary.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Jul 28, 2019 23:29:10 GMT 10
He was getting tired of the music industry and the fame as early as Beatles for Sale, with the song Help! literally being a cry for help. He didn't want to be in the band bigger than Jesus anymore. It's covered a little bit in the Anthology documentary. That may be true, however I would argue that John at least had some interest in remaining in The Beatles up until about 1969 or so. There were conscious efforts within the group to try and carry on as a collective unit after the death of Brian Epstein. Also, if John was truly disinterested in wanting to be in the band, why did he choose to present "Cold Turkey" to Paul as a potential Beatles A-Side? It was after the rejection of "Cold Turkey" that John's enthusiasm and participation in the band really started to wane.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 10:01:31 GMT 10
The entire band's cohesion was already breaking down in 1968 (and arguably earlier, as George and Ringo did not appreciate Paul's creative control over all of Magical Mystery Tour in 1967), so it's highly doubtful John was into it even by 1969.
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