|
Post by SharksFan99 on Feb 16, 2020 20:07:38 GMT 10
See, i'm of the belief that there is still a demand for guitar-driven music; it just hasn't been fully tapped into yet. You only have to look at how huge the Bohemian Rhapsody biopic was to see that there remains a dormant interest in rock music among the masses. When I went to see it at the cinemas with my friend, most of the people there were young families with kids, not middle-aged people or seniors wanting to revisit a band that they first got into back in the '70s. It puts things into perspective. This was a movie about a band who broke into the charts 44 years ago and had a lead singer who had been deceased for over 27 years. Queen may be considered one of the greatest rock bands of all time, but what cultural relevance do they have with the kids and teens of today? None. I don't think we should close the book on the genre and say that it's a lost cause. Rock just needs to find a way to better adapt to the streaming age. It continues to perform well on the album charts. In fact, rock was still the most consumed genre in the United States until as little as three years ago. However, this isn't translating onto the singles charts, which are solely driven by streaming numbers and radio airplay. It has been said many, many times before, but what is truly needed for rock to succeed is a new band to come along and shake things up. Unlikely, yes, but certainly not impossible. You're not going to achieve that though when you have a tribute band (Greta Van Fleet) and a radio-rock fodder band (The Struts) being the "faces" of current rock music. There's also Billie Eilish not knowing who Van Halen was. So we should be expecting teens to be familiar with every rock band that has made it big over the past 50 years? Billie Eilish may not know who Van Halen are, but that's not to say she isn't familiar with more modern rock bands such as Green Day or Linkin Park. I don't think it's unreasonable for a teen to not be familiar with a band who were at their peak 25+ years before they were born. I mean, i'm sure there are young hip-hop fans out there who don't know who 2Pac or The Notorious B.I.G are.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
|
0 |
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 14:11:58 GMT 10
Rock is more dead now than it was in 2019, which in turn was more dead than it was in 2018, and in 2017, and so on... It continues to decline every year.
It's time to face the music (excuse the pun). Rock is gonna go the way of jazz. It's sad to see it happen in real time but it looks inevitable to me
|
|
|
Post by al on Feb 19, 2020 14:27:10 GMT 10
Yeah I hate to say it but the big revival that GVF and to a lesser extent the Struts was supposed to bring about has amounted to nothing. I was optimistic though. I actually have more faith in artists who don’t necessarily pander to the genre integrating some rock sounds. Eventually. Possibly post boredom with drum machines or something. Then of course you’ll have outcry about how they’re “diluting” it or whatever, like when anyone in country experiments with going heavy. If it could ever attempt to blip without criticism, though I get it’s not always unfounded, it might help.
|
|
|
Post by jaydawg89 on Feb 19, 2020 15:01:26 GMT 10
www.billboard.com/charts/hot-100Haha, that's a good one. There's close to no sign of Rock in the whole hot 100. I'm a fan of the genre but, it will probably never come back or atleast never come back in this decade, sadly.
|
|
|
Post by mc98 on Feb 20, 2020 0:46:23 GMT 10
If you look at the Billboard Rock charts, two Panic At The Disco songs have been topping the chart for more than a year. That is in fact the sad reality of what the state of rock is nowadays. It is no longer the genre that the youth go to.
jaydawg89 likes this
|
|
|
Post by Telso on Feb 20, 2020 7:42:46 GMT 10
If you look at the Billboard Rock charts, two Panic At The Disco songs have been topping the chart for more than a year. That is in fact the sad reality of what the state of rock is nowadays. It is no longer the genre that the youth go to. In fact "High Hopes" has been almost uninterruptedly number 1 since november 2018, with only the same band's "Hey Look Ma" breaking that streak for a few months. And calling them rock songs to begin with is really pushing it in my opinion. That's really tragic And I thought rock was pretty dead in 2014... At least the indie stuff of back then offered some diversity.
|
|
|
Post by mc98 on Feb 20, 2020 7:57:38 GMT 10
If you look at the Billboard Rock charts, two Panic At The Disco songs have been topping the chart for more than a year. That is in fact the sad reality of what the state of rock is nowadays. It is no longer the genre that the youth go to. In fact "High Hopes" has been almost uninterruptedly number 1 since november 2018, with only the same band's "Hey Look Ma" breaking that streak for a few months. And calling them rock songs to begin with is really pushing it in my opinion. That's really tragic And I thought rock was pretty dead in 2014... At least the indie stuff of back then offered some diversity. Even the EDM charts are experiencing extreme stagnation with Happier topping the chart since late 2018.
|
|
|
Post by al on Feb 20, 2020 10:09:19 GMT 10
Panic! is still considered rock these days?
|
|
|
Post by SharksFan99 on Feb 20, 2020 15:38:36 GMT 10
That's really tragic And I thought rock was pretty dead in 2014... At least the indie stuff of back then offered some diversity. Yeah, when you think about it, the Mid 2010s were arguably the last era in which rock had any sort of relevance. In addition to indie, there were also the post-hardcore bands who were around at the time as well, such as Bring Me The Horizon, Pierce The Veil, Sleeping with Sirens etc.
|
|
|
Post by broadstreet223 on Mar 25, 2020 1:08:52 GMT 10
Unfortunately, this thread couldn't be any more wrong
|
|
|
Post by astropoug on May 3, 2021 5:24:05 GMT 10
Yeah, pretty much. Just what you think led to it losing relevance in the mainstream and falling out of favour with people. Sorry for procrastinating - it's been a busy couple of weeks, and I can already tell you this post is going to fall short of what I originally promised. Nevertheless: What led to rock music losing relevance, and why will it be permanently dead? Simple: corporatism. The reason rock music went from being just a popular American-led genre in the 1950s to the "default" sound of popular music by the 2000s is because of its inherently rebellious nature. This mainly started in the 1960s with the British Invasion and the gradual association of rock music with the global anti-war movement (hippies in the U.S., student protests nearly everywhere else). At the same time, these bands pushed the creative boundaries by co-opting folk, psychedelia, and even classical music at one point. So here you have two poles that are the key to rock's success: anti-establishmentarianism and artistic innovation. But then, in the flood of mainstream post-grunge bands like Breaking Benjamin and Daughtry in the core 2000s, what was the state of rock? (Say what you want about the "old man ranting" nature of the video above, or the toxic masculinity inherent in his complaints about the music, Henry Rollins is nevertheless a rock music legend.) If you look at the "hottest new" rock bands of 2019, they are acts like Greta Van Fleet and The Struts - one is a Led Zeppelin knock-off, the other is a Rolling Stones knock-off. What statement is that making? How is that pushing the boundaries of art or music? I think a lot of people sense that there is nowhere left to go now, and I think that's vitiated by the fact that even if there are places to go, the bands are not going there. What they're doing is just repeating the old forms: (I took this video just the other day at what is supposed to be a venue for "underground" bands. These underground bands, which should be the avant-garde of the genre, are just mimicking Iron Maiden and Van Halen.) The closest thing I've seen to pushing the envelope in rock music this entire decade was done by a band that's not even performing rock music: In addition to rock seemingly being in a creative rut, I think a major part of what killed it is that it's no longer "cool" or "rebellious" to like rock music. By 2008, it was decidedly mainstream, and I think people sense that that makes it uncool. The most legendary rock bands of our day are acts that are selling out mega-stadiums, guys like The Who, Foo Fighters, Pearl Jam, KISS, Fleetwood Mac, etc. As Steven Wilson of Porcupine Tree once put it, "music of rebellion makes you wanna rage, but it's made by millionaires of nearly twice your age." And now these same musicians are more than twice our ages - this is old person music now. On the other hand, the freshest faces in rock music are bands that are obviously put together by the record label, like HAIM or waterparks. There is nothing rebellious about being a corporate-approved act with a finely crafted sound to appeal to the masses. It's not the sound of revolution anymore; it's the sound of selling out. This image macro seems to pretty well sum up the sentiments I believe are shared by those who have abandoned rock: Now, I know I said I would give a full-throated, thoroughly researched analysis of this, but I actually want to write out a full blog post about this in the future. I'll share all of my thoughts then, when I've had further time to research. However, I think the above does provide the broad strokes of my argument. Hope that explains things. That Calvin and Hobbes comic is from 1992. 1992. When rock was still considered cool to like. Hell, this was during the grunge era. But at the same time, looking at all the non-alternative rock bands from this era like AC/DC and Guns N Roses and Metallica and Motley Crue, they definitely seem very establishment-ish. These bands catered to boomers and Generation Jones. Younger Gen Xers and millennials considered them uncool. I think post-grunge really killed it. Nickelback was literally viewed as the epitome of uncool. Emo was also widely hated. The only "cool" rock movement in the 2000s was the garage rock/indie scene, and that was quite short-lived (2002-2004 was its peak). I remember in the 2000s how much hate mainstream rock like Nickelback, Coldplay, and Linkin Park was getting. Meanwhile, rap and pop artists were largely well-liked. I don't remember there being a 50 Cent or Lil Jon backlash for example. Eminem was ADORED. So was Kanye West. Gorillaz is kinda rap/rock and was adored. I think Soulja Boy was the only rap artist to genuinely get backlash in the 2000s, but the rap community hated him anyway, so it was less targeted at rap and more targeted at him specifically. That said, I've noticed a backlash towards pop and rap in the 2010s. Mumble rap is despised, and so is teen pop like Justin Bieber. Meanwhile, bands like Greta Van Fleet and Starset are getting nothing but praise for the most part. I think rap is moving in the same direction as rock. Woke culture is keeping it alive right now as it is viewed as a "black" genre, but there's very little innovation outside some experimental artists like Death Grips (one of the few well-liked 2010s rappers). A lot of rap however feels extremely corporate, like Silento's Watch Me Whip. It's just like all the post-grunge ballads of the 2000s that led to rock as a whole being viewed as uncool.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
|
0 |
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2021 10:47:22 GMT 10
the garage rock/indie scene, and that was quite short-lived (2002-2004 was its peak). Even in the case of garage rock, I think even then there was a feeling of being very suburban and "establishment." Bands like Fountains of Wayne or The Strokes were the sort you'd hear blasting from the cars of the douchey rich kids, assuming they weren't more into someone like The Game or some of the other big McBling rappers.
|
|
|
Post by slashpop on May 7, 2021 13:55:37 GMT 10
Sorry for procrastinating - it's been a busy couple of weeks, and I can already tell you this post is going to fall short of what I originally promised. Nevertheless: What led to rock music losing relevance, and why will it be permanently dead? Simple: corporatism. The reason rock music went from being just a popular American-led genre in the 1950s to the "default" sound of popular music by the 2000s is because of its inherently rebellious nature. This mainly started in the 1960s with the British Invasion and the gradual association of rock music with the global anti-war movement (hippies in the U.S., student protests nearly everywhere else). At the same time, these bands pushed the creative boundaries by co-opting folk, psychedelia, and even classical music at one point. So here you have two poles that are the key to rock's success: anti-establishmentarianism and artistic innovation. But then, in the flood of mainstream post-grunge bands like Breaking Benjamin and Daughtry in the core 2000s, what was the state of rock? (Say what you want about the "old man ranting" nature of the video above, or the toxic masculinity inherent in his complaints about the music, Henry Rollins is nevertheless a rock music legend.) If you look at the "hottest new" rock bands of 2019, they are acts like Greta Van Fleet and The Struts - one is a Led Zeppelin knock-off, the other is a Rolling Stones knock-off. What statement is that making? How is that pushing the boundaries of art or music? I think a lot of people sense that there is nowhere left to go now, and I think that's vitiated by the fact that even if there are places to go, the bands are not going there. What they're doing is just repeating the old forms: (I took this video just the other day at what is supposed to be a venue for "underground" bands. These underground bands, which should be the avant-garde of the genre, are just mimicking Iron Maiden and Van Halen.) The closest thing I've seen to pushing the envelope in rock music this entire decade was done by a band that's not even performing rock music: In addition to rock seemingly being in a creative rut, I think a major part of what killed it is that it's no longer "cool" or "rebellious" to like rock music. By 2008, it was decidedly mainstream, and I think people sense that that makes it uncool. The most legendary rock bands of our day are acts that are selling out mega-stadiums, guys like The Who, Foo Fighters, Pearl Jam, KISS, Fleetwood Mac, etc. As Steven Wilson of Porcupine Tree once put it, "music of rebellion makes you wanna rage, but it's made by millionaires of nearly twice your age." And now these same musicians are more than twice our ages - this is old person music now. On the other hand, the freshest faces in rock music are bands that are obviously put together by the record label, like HAIM or waterparks. There is nothing rebellious about being a corporate-approved act with a finely crafted sound to appeal to the masses. It's not the sound of revolution anymore; it's the sound of selling out. This image macro seems to pretty well sum up the sentiments I believe are shared by those who have abandoned rock: Now, I know I said I would give a full-throated, thoroughly researched analysis of this, but I actually want to write out a full blog post about this in the future. I'll share all of my thoughts then, when I've had further time to research. However, I think the above does provide the broad strokes of my argument. Hope that explains things. That Calvin and Hobbes comic is from 1992. 1992. When rock was still considered cool to like. Hell, this was during the grunge era. But at the same time, looking at all the non-alternative rock bands from this era like AC/DC and Guns N Roses and Metallica and Motley Crue, they definitely seem very establishment-ish. These bands catered to boomers and Generation Jones. Younger Gen Xers and millennials considered them uncool. I think post-grunge really killed it. Nickelback was literally viewed as the epitome of uncool. Emo was also widely hated. The only "cool" rock movement in the 2000s was the garage rock/indie scene, and that was quite short-lived (2002-2004 was its peak). I remember in the 2000s how much hate mainstream rock like Nickelback, Coldplay, and Linkin Park was getting. Meanwhile, rap and pop artists were largely well-liked. I don't remember there being a 50 Cent or Lil Jon backlash for example. Eminem was ADORED. So was Kanye West. Gorillaz is kinda rap/rock and was adored. I think Soulja Boy was the only rap artist to genuinely get backlash in the 2000s, but the rap community hated him anyway, so it was less targeted at rap and more targeted at him specifically. That said, I've noticed a backlash towards pop and rap in the 2010s. Mumble rap is despised, and so is teen pop like Justin Bieber. Meanwhile, bands like Greta Van Fleet and Starset are getting nothing but praise for the most part. I think rap is moving in the same direction as rock. Woke culture is keeping it alive right now as it is viewed as a "black" genre, but there's very little innovation outside some experimental artists like Death Grips (one of the few well-liked 2010s rappers). A lot of rap however feels extremely corporate, like Silento's Watch Me Whip. It's just like all the post-grunge ballads of the 2000s that led to rock as a whole being viewed as uncool. Guns N Roses and Metallica were cool from 1992 to 1996 having been around back then, they were not seen as boomer at all, even to some extent 96-98, AC/DC never got old and Motley Crue were uncool by 1991.
|
|
|
Post by SharksFan99 on Jul 4, 2021 17:51:49 GMT 10
The original article I posted at the start of this thread was published a year prematurely, I think. Right now, the most streamed song on Spotify globally is a pop-rock song by Olivia Rodrigo, and Maneskin (a young, previously unknown band from Italy) are currently achieving huge success with two songs that weren't even released as singles, let alone performed at Eurovision when they won it back in May! 2021 is so far shaping up to be the most commercially successful year for rock music in well over a decade.
10slover likes this
|
|
|
Post by slashpop on Jul 4, 2021 18:09:27 GMT 10
I've legit been reading this kind of stuff since the early 2010s. I really think it's wistful thinking at this point for a full-on mainstream comeback. But they are still so many great rock projects coming out that are so easily accessible that it doesn't really matter imo. Why clamoring for overexposure anyway? There are so many "classic rock" bands I can't stand now because they are constantly brought into my face by music conversations all the time. I see your point, though I do think rock is in a healthier state than it was just a few years ago. In 2016, guitar-driven music was practically non-existent in the mainstream. Part of the reason as to why I wish to see it return to the mainstream in some capacity is so that it reignites a level of innovation in the genre. I get that it doesn't need to be successful for great songs to be released; some of my favourite songs from this year have been ones that were released by "unknowns". However, these songs are in the form of alt-rock or pop-punk, genres that were popular with the masses over a decade ago. If rock made a comeback to the Top-40 in some way, it will get more and more people talking about the genre once again and maybe then we will see a new aesthetic/sound emerge that will drive rock music forward. It doesn't need to be the most popular genre in the Top-40. I would say though that it's not enough to just have rock in the mainstream imo, it needs to be original and innovative enough to make a difference coupled with being in the mainstream charts. We've already had rock in the mainstream all throughout the the latter 2000s and the start of the 2010s, which is a long time, looking back a big portion of it doesn't seem have have much original substance, lasting power and noteworthy innovation, maybe a little at most, irrespective of one's personal interest or nostalgia in those hits, subgenres, and for that time period. So I'm not actually sure if its better that whatever tends to be regarded as medicore or bad rock is not even played, versus it being mainstream.
|
|