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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 12:21:50 GMT 10
I disagree. Police are the problem: The vast majority of police officers are law-abiding people who are not racist and are simply doing their job. They put their own lives at risk everyday so that the community can be safer. Without the police, society would be a lawless, crippling mess. Don't let a minority taint your view of the police as a whole. I don't know about that. My cousin joined a police academy when he couldn't find a job after graduating and he told me there were some real scoundrels and low-lives there. There was apparently a kid who failed an aptitude/intelligence test and said "You only failed me because I'm white!", not knowing that affirmative action isn't a thing in Canada. I think policing should be gradually automated and the job of police should become a thing of the past. I know people have qualms about surveillance and privacy but if we put the right checks and balances in place, we can create a better world.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Jun 1, 2020 12:48:11 GMT 10
The vast majority of police officers are law-abiding people who are not racist and are simply doing their job. They put their own lives at risk everyday so that the community can be safer. Without the police, society would be a lawless, crippling mess. Don't let a minority taint your view of the police as a whole. I don't know about that. My cousin joined a police academy when he couldn't find a job after graduating and he told me there were some real scoundrels and low-lives there. There was apparently a kid who failed an aptitude/intelligence test and said "You only failed me because I'm white!", not knowing that affirmative action isn't a thing in Canada. I think policing should be gradually automated and the job of police should become a thing of the past. I know people have qualms about surveillance and privacy but if we put the right checks and balances in place, we can create a better world. You get that within any profession though, that's just life. I'm not saying that there aren't any low-lives within the ranks of the police force, but I think it's a bit extreme for people to imply that all police officers are racist and inept. Most of the officers who are involved in controlling the riots across the US right now are simply everyday people who are doing their job. It would be no different to if people started to rebel against retail workers. Sure you get some bad apples among the bunch, but it's morally unfair that the health and safety of thousands of innocent workers are being put at risk because of these riots. I don't agree with that. Thousands of people across the country would be put out of work for starters and there's no guarantee that the automation would be rolled out efficiently without any kinks. That's not even taking into account the privacy and security concerns that would come with policing being done by artificial intelligence.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 13:19:17 GMT 10
I don't know about that. My cousin joined a police academy when he couldn't find a job after graduating and he told me there were some real scoundrels and low-lives there. There was apparently a kid who failed an aptitude/intelligence test and said "You only failed me because I'm white!", not knowing that affirmative action isn't a thing in Canada. I think policing should be gradually automated and the job of police should become a thing of the past. I know people have qualms about surveillance and privacy but if we put the right checks and balances in place, we can create a better world. You get that within any profession though, that's just life. I'm not saying that there aren't any low-lives within the ranks of the police force, but I think it's a bit extreme for people to imply that all police officers are racist and inept. Most of the officers who are involved in controlling the riots across the US right now are simply everyday people who are doing their job. It would be no different to if people started to rebel against retail workers. Sure you get some bad apples among the bunch, but it's morally unfair that the health and safety of thousands of innocent workers are being put at risk because of these riots. I don't agree with that. Thousands of people across the country would be put out of work for starters and there's no guarantee that the automation would be rolled out efficiently without any kinks. That's not even taking into account the privacy and security concerns that would come with policing being done by artificial intelligence. My cousin did eventually quit police academy exactly because he couldn't see himself staying in that job for too long with all those kinds of people, so you might be downplaying how low the average intelligence of a police officer actually is. They actually don't hire if you're too smart (https://www.mintpressnews.com/can-someone-be-too-smart-to-be-a-cop/192106/). This isn't really comparable to retail. You can just go to another store if you don't like the staff. Can't exactly choose to have a different officer sit on your neck.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Jun 1, 2020 13:40:50 GMT 10
You get that within any profession though, that's just life. I'm not saying that there aren't any low-lives within the ranks of the police force, but I think it's a bit extreme for people to imply that all police officers are racist and inept. Most of the officers who are involved in controlling the riots across the US right now are simply everyday people who are doing their job. It would be no different to if people started to rebel against retail workers. Sure you get some bad apples among the bunch, but it's morally unfair that the health and safety of thousands of innocent workers are being put at risk because of these riots. I don't agree with that. Thousands of people across the country would be put out of work for starters and there's no guarantee that the automation would be rolled out efficiently without any kinks. That's not even taking into account the privacy and security concerns that would come with policing being done by artificial intelligence. My cousin did eventually quit police academy exactly because he couldn't see himself staying in that job for too long with all those kinds of people, so you might be downplaying how low the average intelligence of a police officer actually is. This isn't really comparable to retail. You can just go to another store if you don't like the staff. Can't exactly choose to have a different officer sit on your neck. Is that really an issue? You don't have to have an above-average IQ to be a decent, hard-working person. What your opinion is of police officers is up for you to decide, but I kind of think its low of you to be using intelligence as a means of undermining people working in a certain profession. There are otherwise intelligent and kind people who are stuck doing menial jobs five days a week, just as there are also less intelligent people who are employed in better-paying jobs. If someone is competently doing their job, following the rules and is a kind and decent person, that's all that really matters in the end. It's no different. Like I mentioned, every profession in the world has it's fair share of low-lives, you can't just avoid not coming into contact with rude or racist people. Most of the people in this world are genuinely good people. Police officers are no different in that regard.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 14:10:32 GMT 10
My cousin did eventually quit police academy exactly because he couldn't see himself staying in that job for too long with all those kinds of people, so you might be downplaying how low the average intelligence of a police officer actually is. This isn't really comparable to retail. You can just go to another store if you don't like the staff. Can't exactly choose to have a different officer sit on your neck. Is that really an issue? You don't have to have an above-average IQ to be a decent, hard-working person. What your opinion is of police officers is up for you to decide, but I kind of think its low of you to be using intelligence as a means of undermining people working in a certain profession. There are otherwise intelligent and kind people who are stuck doing menial jobs five days a week, just as there are also less intelligent people who are employed in better-paying jobs. If someone is a kind and decent person, that's all that really matters in the end. It's no different. Like I mentioned, every profession in the world has it's fair share of low-lives, you can't just avoid not coming into contact with rude or racist people. Most of the people in this world are genuinely good people. Police officers are no different in that regard. You might be okay with low-intelligence officers, but I'm not, sorry. It's not snooty, it's a question of safety, something police officers are entrusted to ensure. In Toronto there was an incident of police throwing a black women off a balcony to her death, another time a police officer punched a black man because he was giving a "death stare" (he was listening to music on his concealed headphones and not looking at anything in particular). The day we build a society that eliminates the need for this job category will be a great day indeed.
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Post by smartboi on Jun 1, 2020 15:30:33 GMT 10
Is that really an issue? You don't have to have an above-average IQ to be a decent, hard-working person. What your opinion is of police officers is up for you to decide, but I kind of think its low of you to be using intelligence as a means of undermining people working in a certain profession. There are otherwise intelligent and kind people who are stuck doing menial jobs five days a week, just as there are also less intelligent people who are employed in better-paying jobs. If someone is a kind and decent person, that's all that really matters in the end. It's no different. Like I mentioned, every profession in the world has it's fair share of low-lives, you can't just avoid not coming into contact with rude or racist people. Most of the people in this world are genuinely good people. Police officers are no different in that regard. You might be okay with low-intelligence officers, but I'm not, sorry. It's not snooty, it's a question of safety, something police officers are entrusted to ensure. In Toronto there was an incident of police throwing a black women off a balcony to her death, another time a police officer punched a black man because he was giving a "death stare" (he was listening to music on his concealed headphones and not looking at anything in particular). The day we build a society that eliminates the need for this job category will be a great day indeed. I agree that its ridiculous to bar police IQ and horrible that innocent people are sometimes killed or targeted, but wouldn't you agree that a better solution to those problems is improving the standards of hiring/training officers rather than getting rid of them completely? The fundamental idea of police officers is that they protect and serve the public while upholding the law, so in theory they are a good idea. Also, they aren't even THAT low in intelligence. The article you linked in your previous post literally states that the average police officer has a slightly above average IQ.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Jun 1, 2020 15:35:10 GMT 10
Is that really an issue? You don't have to have an above-average IQ to be a decent, hard-working person. What your opinion is of police officers is up for you to decide, but I kind of think its low of you to be using intelligence as a means of undermining people working in a certain profession. There are otherwise intelligent and kind people who are stuck doing menial jobs five days a week, just as there are also less intelligent people who are employed in better-paying jobs. If someone is a kind and decent person, that's all that really matters in the end. It's no different. Like I mentioned, every profession in the world has it's fair share of low-lives, you can't just avoid not coming into contact with rude or racist people. Most of the people in this world are genuinely good people. Police officers are no different in that regard. You might be okay with low-intelligence officers, but I'm not, sorry. It's not snooty, it's a question of safety, something police officers are entrusted to ensure. In Toronto there was an incident of police throwing a black women off a balcony to her death, another time a police officer punched a black man because he was giving a "death stare" (he was listening to music on his concealed headphones and not looking at anything in particular). The day we build a society that eliminates the need for this job category will be a great day indeed. I don't think anyone wants someone who can barely string two sentences together to be thrust into a position where they are responsible for peoples lives. However, that isn't too say people of average intelligence aren't capable of doing the job well. Those two examples you gave only illustrate the point that racism is still very much entrenched into society, which again, is the main issue that we should be focusing on. It can't just be assumed that the police are the only ones who are carrying out racist acts. If the police are doing it, then other members of society are as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 15:53:55 GMT 10
I agree that its ridiculous to bar police IQ and horrible that innocent people are sometimes killed or targeted, but wouldn't you agree that a better solution to those problems is improving the standards of hiring/training officers rather than getting rid of them completely? The fundamental idea of police officers is that they protect and serve the public while upholding the law, so in theory they are a good idea. Also, they aren't even THAT low in intelligence. The article you linked in your previous post literally states that the average police officer has a slightly above average IQ. I don't think we can rid of them completely (it would be ideal but I doubt it will be possible in my life time), just automate more portions of it so that you can gradually get rid of the dumber ones. Ideally there would be so few open positions, only the ones with 4 year degrees have any hope of getting hired. Traffic seems to be an easy place to start. 104 is not that high considering how much power they have. One has to ask what the standard deviation is on that, if it is more than 5 then there are a sizable amount of officers with below average intelligence. It's a position that commands respect and authority, it should earn it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 16:17:51 GMT 10
I don't think anyone wants someone who can barely string two sentences together to be thrust into a position where they are responsible for peoples lives. However, that isn't too say people of average intelligence aren't capable of doing the job well. Those two examples you gave only illustrate the point that racism is still very much entrenched into society, which again, is the main issue that we should be focusing on. It can't just be assumed that the police are the only ones who are carrying out racist acts. If the police are doing it, then other members of society are as well. You don't get it. It's one thing if some random sales clerk is racist, it's entirely another for someone in a position of authority, someone who is above you and can control you, to be racist. I am not bothered with trailer trash who say racist things. It has zero effect on my life. Seriously, what can they do besides say mean words? They have no power over anyone. But now put that trailer trash in uniform, and the dynamic changes. They can do anything to you–and they can get away with it. If there was no video you can be certain the officer that killed George Floyd would have got off free, free to kill even more people. That's not something that you can brush off as "shit happens".
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Post by SharksFan99 on Jun 1, 2020 16:28:59 GMT 10
I don't think anyone wants someone who can barely string two sentences together to be thrust into a position where they are responsible for peoples lives. However, that isn't too say people of average intelligence aren't capable of doing the job well. Those two examples you gave only illustrate the point that racism is still very much entrenched into society, which again, is the main issue that we should be focusing on. It can't just be assumed that the police are the only ones who are carrying out racist acts. If the police are doing it, then other members of society are as well. You don't get it. It's one thing if some random sales clerk is racist, it's entirely another for someone in a position of authority, someone who is above you and can control you, to be racist. I am not bothered with trailer trash who say racist things. It has zero effect on my life. Seriously, what can they do besides say mean words? They have no power over anyone. But now put that trailer trash in uniform, and the dynamic changes. They can do anything to you–and they can get away with it. If there was no video you can be certain the officer that killed George Floyd would have got off free, free to kill even more people. That's not something that you can brush off as "shit happens". Uh, yes, I do and you've just proven my point. Think of it this way; the fact that the police officer would have gotten away with it (had it not been on video) is proof that racism still exists elsewhere in government and society as a whole. If it didn't exist, the police officer responsible for George Floyd's death would have been charged with murder, even without the incident being captured on video. It's as simple as that. The racism is the issue, not the police, and not the fact that there are people higher-up than the general population. Ultimately, the police officer developed his racist beliefs and values from something and/or someone, they didn't just come to him out of the blue. That dynamic you speak of wouldn't exist in the first place if the issue at hand was actually addressed. Abolishing the police isn't going to remove racism within our society.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 17:33:28 GMT 10
Uh, yes, I do and you've just proven my point. Think of it this way; the fact that the police officer would have gotten away with it (had it not been on video) is proof that racism still exists elsewhere in government and society as a whole. If it didn't exist, the police officer responsible for George Floyd's death would have been charged with murder, even without the incident being captured on video. It's as simple as that. The racism is the issue, not the police, and not the fact that there are people higher-up than the general population. Ultimately, the police officer developed his racist beliefs and values from something and/or someone, they didn't just come to him out of the blue. That dynamic you speak of wouldn't exist in the first place if the issue at hand was actually addressed. Abolishing the police isn't going to remove racism within our society. Is your point that racism exists? Then we never disagreed. That doesn't absolve the murderous profession of policing. Call me when sales clerks are responsible for killing hundreds of people every year on the job. The dynamic will always exist whether racism existed or not. Unchecked, the police will arrest you and abuse you for any reason they want. They are above the law in many ways that ordinary people are not, that's why they get away with murder all the time. Susan the racist Walmart greeter will never be in the same league.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Jun 1, 2020 22:27:18 GMT 10
Is your point that racism exists? Then we never disagreed. That doesn't absolve the murderous profession of policing. Call me when sales clerks are responsible for killing hundreds of people every year on the job. The dynamic will always exist whether racism existed or not. Unchecked, the police will arrest you and abuse you for any reason they want. They are above the law in many ways that ordinary people are not, that's why they get away with murder all the time. Susan the racist Walmart greeter will never be in the same league. The reason why I brought up retail workers in particular was to make the point that people in any profession can be racist, but even though there may be a minority who are, that's not to say the majority hold those same beliefs. I'm not saying that retail workers hold the same "authority" or power as people within the police ranks. However, taking steps as a society to improve race relations and removing corruption in government can go a long way in preventing those in high-ranking roles from taking advantage of their powers and abusing them. The status-quo isn't going to change the actions of a small minority of police officers. You're over-exaggerating the extent to which members of the police force are abusing their powers. Many, and I mean the vast majority, of police officers out there are law-abiding people, they're protecting the community and going by the book. You can't just paint everyone under the one brush. Also, saying that they "get away with murder all the time" is an ill-informed statement to make. If a convicted serial killer was on the run and was posing as a threat to members of the community, would killing them as a last ditch attempt to stop them necessarily be a bad thing? I don't think it would. If, on the other hand, we're strictly talking about police officers needlessly killing African Americans or members of another race, then yes, I would agree that they are getting away with murder. It all just depends on the context. We need the police force. They do kill people while doing their job, rightly and wrongly, but they are playing a vital role in ensuring that our society continues to function and remains safe. If you're going to disassemble the police force and put thousands of people out of work, you may as well just abolish the government as well and any other professions that are above the common person. Clearly we're better off being a lawless society, where people would literally get away with murder and never face the prospect of being charged for it. Or, we could rely on a drone/robot and pray to God that it doesn't suffer any malfunctions while trying to stop criminals in their tracks. Yeah, that's really going to pan out well.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 1:56:57 GMT 10
I disagree. Police are the problem: The vast majority of police officers are law-abiding people who are not racist and are simply doing their job. They put their own lives at risk everyday so that the community can be safer. Without the police, society would be a lawless, crippling mess. Don't let a minority taint your view of the police as a whole. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think a majority of police are racist, but I do think the vast majority of them go into the profession with an authoritarian, bullying mindset. These videos and more show them attacking white Americans equally as much as POCs. Also worth nothing that even if just one officer wrongfully kills someone, if ten officers defend him, this isn’t just a matter of bad apples; it’s institutional.
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Post by al on Jun 2, 2020 6:42:18 GMT 10
IMO it's the sociopathy levels of the officers more than just intelligence. Regular psych evals may not be a bad start. Same for military.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 10:02:06 GMT 10
The President calling on the army to shoot protestors as he holds up a Bible and lying about how the country was found on law and order (it was found on fighting government tyranny) is how I imagined the US would end. I mean it hasn't ended yet but it's how I imagined it. This all feels like a prologue to some B-tier dystopian thriller flick that gets 38% on Rotten Tomatoes, except its real life. And it's just the prologue.
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