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Post by SharksFan99 on Jul 23, 2020 17:00:16 GMT 10
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Post by #Infinity on Jul 23, 2020 18:12:32 GMT 10
I'm shocked and disgusted you, of all people, would say anything other than that it should be morally acceptable for same-sex couples to raise children. I thought you were more open-minded than that.
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Post by #Infinity on Jul 23, 2020 18:17:25 GMT 10
I'm actually on the fence when it comes to this. I'm not opposed to the idea of a same-sex couple raising children, everyone deserves the right to raise a child if they wish to. That being said, I think my natural inclination would still be for a child to be raised by a biological male and a biological female, as I believe the contrasting perspectives you get from people of two different sexes/genders is irreplaceable. I know there isn't evidence to back up my stance though. Numerous studies suggest that children who are raised by same-sex couples are not worse off than children who are raised by heterosexual couples. It doesn't harm the children any way. So if I were to sum up my beliefs, while i'm not against two people of the same-sex wanting to start a family of their own, its something which I have some reservations about and am not 100% in support of. I don't mean to offend anyone by saying that though, don't let me dictate what you should and shouldn't do with your life.  I don't care if you say you don't mean to offend anybody, you can't have this both ways. Saying you have any reservations at all and feel biased in favor of heterosexual parents means you support a system of social inequality. It's the person that matters, not their sex. As a woman attracted to women, I want to raise kids some day, and I genuinely don't feel comfortable considering you a friend if you think a child is worse off in my hands simply because I'm not with a man.
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Post by #Infinity on Jul 23, 2020 18:44:50 GMT 10
I don't care if you say you don't mean to offend anybody, you can't have this both ways. Saying you have any reservations at all and feel biased in favor of heterosexual parents means you support a system of social inequality. It's the person that matters, not their sex. As a woman attracted to women, I want to raise kids some day, and I genuinely don't feel comfortable considering you a friend if you think a child is worse off in my hands simply because I'm not with a man.I never said that, you're putting words into my mouth. I even mentioned in my previous post that studies show that children who are raised by same-sex couples are no worse off than children who are raised by heterosexual couples. If I was so staunchly opposed to it which you're falsely suggesting I am, why I would even bother making that point? It wouldn't make any sense. I've mentioned twice that I am not opposed to same-sex couples wanting to start a family and believe me, I am not. I'll even quote a sentence I made in my original post: If I've offended you (which clearly I have), I apologise as it was never my intention to. Let me make it clear again, I do support same-sex couples wanting to start a family and I don't believe in social inequality at all. I can see that you mean well, but you really have to be careful about what you say when dealing with social minorities, because even if you have good intentions, the implications can come off very badly. I'm a lot more forgiving than most other LGBTQ+ people would be in response to what you said. Things like adoption rights aren't something you can trivialize with a personal opinion if you're not queer yourself and/or don't have LGBTQ+ family. Even if you say you support my rights, I still feel condescended to if you say it's preferable for parents to be opposite sex. I say all of this because in this world today, it's important to really have a comprehensive understanding of people of diverse backgrounds, not just by saying you support their rights, but by listening to their stories and recognizing the hardships they face because of systemic inequality.
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Post by #Infinity on Jul 23, 2020 19:35:39 GMT 10
I can see that you mean well, but you really have to be careful about what you say when dealing with social minorities, because even if you have good intentions, the implications can come off very badly. I'm a lot more forgiving than most other LGBTQ+ people would be in response to what you said. Things like adoption rights aren't something you can trivialize with a personal opinion if you're not queer yourself and/or don't have LGBTQ+ family. Even if you say you support my rights, I still feel condescended to if you say it's preferable for parents to be opposite sex. I say all of this because in this world today, it's important to really have a comprehensive understanding of people of diverse backgrounds, not just by saying you support their rights, but by listening to their stories and recognizing the hardships they face because of systemic inequality. I do get where you are coming from, but honestly, I really don't think there was anything particularly abhorrent about what I said. The pendulum doesn't have to swing 100% in the one direction for someone to be able to have a view on something. Even if I do have some reservations about same-sex couples raising children from birth, that isn't too say I don't support the idea of it at all and I really feel as though that's an issue that someone can't freely express their beliefs if they are not 100% in favour of it or 100% opposed to it. Yes, I understand that this is a sensitive topic, and I also realise that I am speaking as someone who is not a member of the LGBTQ+ community, but the more we shift our focus onto all topics, perspectives and opinions relating to LGBTQ+ rights (whether it be adoption rights or something else entirely), the more chances we have of ultimately shedding those negative viewpoints altogether when it comes to same-sex couples having children. Part of the reason people can be in denial is because they have a lack of knowledge and perspective on the matter. We need to have discussions on this. We can't just pretend that people are either fully in favour or fully against it, you're going to get some people (like myself) who do sit on the fence when it comes to topics such as this and there shouldn't be anything wrong with that, even if it could potentially offend some. They shouldn't be condemned just for it and that goes for viewpoints on any topic relating to social minorities. You can't escape criticisms, they're everywhere. What should be done, however, is changing the way people perceive things (without just pointing the blame on them) and working towards the ultimate goal of open acceptance of people from all walks of life, and backgrounds. Conversations are really important, yes. It's a lot to untangle.
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Post by rainbow on Jul 23, 2020 23:07:16 GMT 10
They should be allowed to raise children since it's better than being in the adoption center. That being said, it's obviously going to be different from being raised by a heterosexual couple. I think a boy with two moms is still capable of having a male figure in his life. The only difference is it will probably be his uncle or grandfather.
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Post by al on Jul 24, 2020 0:15:04 GMT 10
I believe it should be perfectly legal in the eyes of the government and not stigmatized. The concept of an “ideal” couple or family to raise a child is old fashioned, because I think it’s been proven that outside appearances do not necessarily reflect whether a child thrives. I don’t support policing lifestyles, not just morally, but from a perspective of “where does it end?” For example, there are plenty of single moms in the world, where there’s no father in the picture because it’s just not an option. Then we could get into the area of different religions, political views, the list goes on. This is all okay. All kinds of people have the right to have children, as long as they will be safe and cared for.
I think making sure a child has exposure to different people (ie: both sexes) is more of an issue of how they’re raised. I can understand why having a same or opposite sex role model would be helpful for development. However, whether this happens, I’m not sure is guaranteed within a same-sex couple either. The parent could be a negative influence, a live-in absentee, etc. Ultimately there are no guarantees of positive interaction, so I think it’s a choice regardless of innate family structure.
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Post by al on Jul 24, 2020 1:14:45 GMT 10
A biological mother and a father will always be the most ideal. Nothing can really beat that IMO. That wasn’t all I had in mind by a stale “ideal”. I was actually imagining an opposite sex and same race couple, middle class/college educated, church on Sundays, picket fence and basketball hoop in the yard, etc type deal. Like the 1950’s. Because I’ve known a lot of families who have strived for that and still end up with messed up, or at least unhappy kids. But that’s not to say I’m dismissive of the problems different, or the ever prevalent “yours, mine and ours” situations cause either. I just don’t think one is guaranteed anything via these appearances; that’s what I think is old fashioned. In some ways I’m sure my views would seem antiquated to others. I would be okay with being a stay at home mom, I don’t want to send my future kids to daycare, I’m open to homeschooling. I’m not comfortable with other people raising my children. But that can actually be seen as dated to the point where it’s gotten less acceptable. And that’s what I don’t want, being forced to be “acceptable” in ways that don’t work for myself and my family. For me it comes down to letting find their own “right way” too, if I’m going to be allowed to. However I’m not going to act like being raised by and having a good relationship with both biological parents with hasn’t been preferential throughout history for no reason. I’ve also known people to fixate on this when it did not happen and too become unhappy. But my stance is that so many things can go wrong and they aren’t necessarily easy to predict. I like to think in terms of, “How can this work?” rather than what can versus what can’t.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2020 2:17:20 GMT 10
There is absolutely no evidence that a child needs a "male influence" or "female influence" in their upbringing or that being raised by a same-sex couple deprives them of one or the other.
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Post by goodbants on Jul 24, 2020 3:51:34 GMT 10
Think about it this way: would you rather a child be in foster care their whole life or have two loving dads or two loving moms?
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Post by SharksFan99 on Jul 24, 2020 10:19:50 GMT 10
Okay, clearly i'm a cold-hearted, homophoboic bastard for even considering to create a topic about this, the message has been made very clear to me. I'm not against same-sex couples having children and I never have been. I'm going to refrain from talking about anything relating to LGBTQ+ in the future because obviously you get shot down just for not being fully in support or fully opposed to something, there's no middle-ground.
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Post by longaotian on Jul 24, 2020 10:50:28 GMT 10
Okay, clearly i'm a cold-hearted, homophoboic bastard for even considering to create a topic about this, the message has been made very clear to me. I'm not against same-sex couples having children and I never have been. I'm going to refrain from talking about anything relating to LGBTQ+ in the future because obviously you get shot down just for not being fully in support or fully opposed to something, there's no middle-ground. See I get annoyed when people expect others to be accepting of everyone and all these ideas but then those same people don't want to be accepting of different viewpoints. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I would like to think on this forum especially we can all share our ideas, even if its something not everyone is going to agree on.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Jul 24, 2020 11:01:17 GMT 10
Okay, clearly i'm a cold-hearted, homophoboic bastard for even considering to create a topic about this, the message has been made very clear to me. I'm not against same-sex couples having children and I never have been. I'm going to refrain from talking about anything relating to LGBTQ+ in the future because obviously you get shot down just for not being fully in support or fully opposed to something, there's no middle-ground. See I get annoyed when people expect others to be accepting of everyone and all these ideas but then those same people don't want to be accepting of different viewpoints. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I would like to think on this forum especially we can all share our ideas, even if its something not everyone is going to agree on. I mean, I can understand to an extent why a topic such as this one would leave people feeling quite divided and potentially even offended, it is a sensitive topic. That's why I had second thoughts about creating it in the first place. However, I do agree with what you're saying though, we should be able to respects each others opinions even if we don't necessarily agree with them. I don't want to make this about me though. This is more just an issue with internet culture in general and dare I say it, any topics relating to the LGBTQ+ community.
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Post by rainbow on Jul 24, 2020 11:02:07 GMT 10
Okay, clearly i'm a cold-hearted, homophoboic bastard for even considering to create a topic about this, the message has been made very clear to me. I'm not against same-sex couples having children and I never have been. I'm going to refrain from talking about anything relating to LGBTQ+ in the future because obviously you get shot down just for not being fully in support or fully opposed to something, there's no middle-ground. See I get annoyed when people expect others to be accepting of everyone and all these ideas but then those same people don't want to be accepting of different viewpoints. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I would like to think on this forum especially we can all share our ideas, even if its something not everyone is going to agree on. For some reason, it seems like every thread related to LGBT issues gets extremely polarized on this site.
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Post by Khal on Jul 24, 2020 11:51:06 GMT 10
Yes its moral. Theres no evidence that shows same sex parents are better or worse than straight parents
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