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Post by SharksFan99 on Nov 30, 2020 16:45:40 GMT 10
One band who I feel don't receive enough recognition from music critics and fans alike for their influence on music is Placebo, an English alt-rock band who achieved international success during the late '90s due to their androgynous public image and music content. When you listen to their releases, you can really see the influence they had on the emo wave of bands from the mid-late 2000s. It's all there. From the lyrics that focus on mental illness and sexuality, to the over-emphasis on goth aesthetics; they were quite ahead of their time in a sense. "Pure Morning" even contains this as a lyric, which to me, would seem stereotypically emo in any other sense: Really, Placebo were the "Myspace emo" of 1998 if there had been such a thing. I think they ultimately would have developed a similar fan base to My Chemical Romance and Panic! At The Disco if Myspace/social media did exist in some form during the late '90s.
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Post by slashpop on Nov 30, 2020 17:20:29 GMT 10
One band who I feel don't receive enough recognition from music critics and fans alike for their influence on music is Placebo, an English alt-rock band who achieved international success during the late '90s due to their androgynous public image and music content. When you listen to their releases, you can really see the influence they had on the emo wave of bands from the mid-late 2000s. It's all there. From the lyrics that focus on mental illness and sexuality, to the over-emphasis on goth aesthetics; they were quite ahead of their time in a sense. "Pure Morning" even contains this as a lyric, which to me, would seem stereotypically emo in any other sense: Really, Placebo were the "Myspace emo" of 1998 if there had been such a thing. I think they ultimately would have developed a similar fan base to My Chemical Romance and Panic! At The Disco if Myspace/social media did exist in some form during the late '90s. I saw them in 2003 live and watched all their videos from mtv from 1996-2004 when they first cane out. I would say their earlier material until 1998 is mid to late 90s alternative rock with a touch of pop, goth, glam rock, post grunge, and post punk. Some of their early 2000s material is classified as post punk revival and is a bit more pop driven. Tbh dark, excessively introspective and emotional lyrics can be applied to many music genres. Especfially goth and post hardcore and stuff that wasn’t as mainstream. The mid 00s emo is does have some influences from the earlier 2000s. You can include the rasmus as well. weezer in the mid to late 90s is closer to the real emo The thing I feel emo is an innacurate term for the 04-08 movement which is more of amalgamation of genres with a very weak link to the original word, the true word has little to do with and the mid 00s definition was almost commonly used to describe bands like weezer and sunny day real estate in 1998, or sometimes grungey or melodic emotional post hardcore or alt rock up until then, after the 80s wave.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Nov 30, 2020 18:51:46 GMT 10
Tbh dark, excessively introspective and emotional lyrics can be applied to many music genres. Especfially goth and post hardcore and stuff that wasn’t as mainstream. That may be the case, but Placebo are notable for arguably being the first mainstream alt-rock band to not only combine both goth and glam-rock influences, but to also wear them on their sleeves. That's what makes their legacy and influence on the mainstream music that followed (particularly of the "myspace emo" of the mid-late 2000s) so significant. Stylistically, their late '90s output has much greater ties with My Chemical Romance than what it does with Nirvana, for instance, and that's despite the fact that Nirvana also wrote songs which had lyrical themes based on emotional and introspective themes. Before Placebo, there really wasn't an alt-rock band that so heavily based their public image/releases on gender ambiguity and goth. Sure, The Cure may have been a mainstream pioneer in the popularisation of goth, but their output also incorporated new-wave influences and most people wouldn't describe their music as having similarities with Placebo or My Chemical Romance. The thing I feel emo is an innacurate term for the 04-08 movement which is more of amalgamation of genres with a very weak link to the original word, the true word has little to do with and the mid 00s definition was almost commonly used to describe bands like weezer and sunny day real estate in 1998, or sometimes grungey or melodic emotional post hardcore or;alt rock up until then, after the 80s wave. I agree that the emo wave of the mid-late 2000s has little to no stylistic ties with the music that was labelled emo during the '80s and '90s. Unfortunately, the mid-late 2000s wave is so entrenched into people's minds for the emo label to ever have any other connotation.
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Post by slashpop on Nov 30, 2020 19:18:06 GMT 10
Tbh dark, excessively introspective and emotional lyrics can be applied to many music genres. Especfially goth and post hardcore and stuff that wasn’t as mainstream. That may be the case, but Placebo are notable for arguably being the first mainstream alt-rock band to not only combine both goth and glam-rock influences, but to also wear them on their sleeves. That's what makes their legacy and influence on the mainstream music that followed (particularly of the "myspace emo" of the mid-late 2000s) so significant. Stylistically, their late '90s output has much greater ties with My Chemical Romance than what it does with Nirvana, for instance, and that's despite the fact that Nirvana also wrote songs which had lyrical themes based on emotional and introspective themes. Before Placebo, there really wasn't an alt-rock band that so heavily based their public image/releases on gender ambiguity and goth. Sure, The Cure may have been a mainstream pioneer in the popularisation of goth, but their output also incorporated new-wave influences and most people wouldn't describe their music as having similarities with Placebo or My Chemical Romance. The thing I feel emo is an innacurate term for the 04-08 movement which is more of amalgamation of genres with a very weak link to the original word, the true word has little to do with and the mid 00s definition was almost commonly used to describe bands like weezer and sunny day real estate in 1998, or sometimes grungey or melodic emotional post hardcore or;alt rock up until then, after the 80s wave. I agree that the emo wave of the mid-late 2000s has little to no stylistic ties with the music that was labelled emo during the '80s and '90s. Unfortunately, the mid-late 2000s wave is so entrenched into people's minds for the emo label to ever have any other connotation. sisters of mercy and Sioux and the banshees the pioneers of goth and were super mainstream at one point though. Also obviously I forget to mention Bauhaus, they were mainstream groups actually in the early 80s to mid 80s. I would say more glam than goth but there is some dark post punkish stuff and to some extent goth but less direct. But I get what you are saying. I would say placebos first album from mid 1996 has more in common with post grunge and alternative from 1994-1998. The second album is like almost the same with some Y2K era alternative vibes here and there. I would say Marilyn Mansons earlier mainstream material better represents and mainstream alternative rock with goth and glam influences. Check out portrait of an American family and mechanical animals. I would argue there was a glam influence or flirtation brewing in a few bands in Britpop and some alt rock from 1994-1997. oh and gene loves gezebel are another one from the 90s and i meant late 80s, who combined glam with goth and some alternative stuff. rasmus had an influence on the emo look and vibe of the mid 00s as well, don’t know if you noticed
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Post by SharksFan99 on Dec 1, 2020 18:54:58 GMT 10
sisters of mercy and Sioux and the banshees the pioneers of goth and were super mainstream at one point though. Also obviously I forget to mention Bauhaus, they were mainstream groups actually in the early 80s to mid 80s. I'm not doubting the influence they would have had on the bands that came after them. That being said, those bands didn't have the same crossover-appeal as Placebo in terms of international Top-40 chart success. You're right that all three of them did achieve some level of mainstream success, however, their mainstream success was primarily in the UK. They didn't do as well internationally and the chart success they were able to achieve internationally really isn't comparable to that of Placebo. For instance, "Kiss Them For Me" was Sioux and the Banshee's only Top-40 crossover-hit in the United States and it is more of a dance-pop track rather than a post-punk release like their late '70s material. Even their biggest UK hit, "Dear Prudence", only managed to chart in one country outside of the British Isles and that was Australia, where it peaked at just #44. In contrast, Placebo's album and single releases managed to place much higher on the charts internationally. "Pure Morning" not only peaked at #4 in both the UK (where it was certified "silver") and Scotland, it also charted at #8 in Iceland, #21 in New Zealand, #34 in Canada, and even managed to chart within both the US Alternative Airplay Chart and the US Mainstream Rock Chart. The song was even featured in an episode of Daria, which again, only highlights how they were the first goth and glam-rock inspired, alt-rock band to become huge internationally. Their 1998 and 2000 album releases, Without You I'm Nothing and Black Market Music, also charted within the Top-20 across a number of mainland European countries. I would say Marilyn Mansons earlier mainstream material better represents and mainstream alternative rock with goth and glam influences. Check out portrait of an American family and mechanical animals. Marilyn Manson's mid '90s material is too industrial-fused for it to have had a significant influence on the development of the "myspace emo" of the mid-late 2000s. The goth and glam influences may have been there, but stylistically, there's little to no similarities that can be drawn between Manson's public imagery/song content and that of bands such as My Chemical Romance, Fall Out Boy etc. rasmus had an influence on the emo look and vibe of the mid 00s as well, don’t know if you noticed. The Rasmus's first internationally successful album was Dead Letters and it wasn't released until March 2003, almost four and a half years after Placebo's Without You I'm Nothing was released. I do agree that they could have had an influence on the emo scene of the mid-late 2000s, but again, Placebo had already achieved international success a number of years earlier based on similar stylistic qualities. I'm not debating how the influences themselves came about, I agree that goth and glam had existed and entered the mainstream well before Placebo ever released their debut album. What I am suggesting, however, is that Placebo were the first alternative-rock band to heavily base their look and sound on the stylistic qualities (e.g goth and glam) that defined the "myspace emo" scene and they managed to do so during the late '90s, which makes them ahead of their time and highly influential.
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Post by slashpop on Dec 1, 2020 19:09:28 GMT 10
sisters of mercy and Sioux and the banshees the pioneers of goth and were super mainstream at one point though. Also obviously I forget to mention Bauhaus, they were mainstream groups actually in the early 80s to mid 80s. I'm not doubting the influence they would have had on the bands that came after them. That being said, those bands didn't have the same crossover-appeal as Placebo in terms of international Top-40 chart success. You're right that all three of them did achieve some level of mainstream success, however, their mainstream success was primarily in the UK. They didn't do as well internationally and the chart success they were able to achieve internationally really isn't comparable to that of Placebo. For instance, "Kiss Them For Me" was Sioux and the Banshee's only Top-40 crossover-hit in the United States and it is more of a dance-pop track rather than a post-punk release like their late '70s material. Even their biggest UK hit, "Dear Prudence", only managed to chart in one country outside of the British Isles and that was Australia, where it peaked at just #44. In contrast, Placebo's album and single releases managed to place much higher on the charts internationally. "Pure Morning" not only peaked at #4 in both the UK (where it was certified "silver") and Scotland, it also charted at #8 in Iceland, #21 in New Zealand, #34 in Canada, and even managed to chart within both the US Alternative Airplay Chart and the US Mainstream Rock Chart. The song was even featured in an episode of Daria, which again, only highlights how they were the first goth and glam-rock inspired, alt-rock band to become huge internationally. Their 1998 and 2000 album releases, Without You I'm Nothing and Black Market Music, also charted within the Top-20 across a number of mainland European countries. I would say Marilyn Mansons earlier mainstream material better represents and mainstream alternative rock with goth and glam influences. Check out portrait of an American family and mechanical animals. Marilyn Manson's mid '90s material is too industrial-fused for it to have had a significant influence on the development of the "myspace emo" of the mid-late 2000s. The goth and glam influences may have been there, but stylistically, there's little to no similarities that can be drawn between Manson's public imagery/song content and that of bands such as My Chemical Romance, Fall Out Boy etc. rasmus had an influence on the emo look and vibe of the mid 00s as well, don’t know if you noticed. The Rasmus's first internationally successful album was Dead Letters and it wasn't released until March 2003, almost four and a half years after Placebo's Without You I'm Nothing was released. I do agree that they could have had an influence on the emo scene of the mid-late 2000s, but again, Placebo had already achieved international success a number of years earlier based on similar stylistic qualities. I'm not debating how the influences themselves came about, I agree that goth and glam had existed and entered the mainstream well before Placebo ever released their debut album. What I am suggesting, however, is that Placebo were the first alternative-rock band to heavily base their look and sound on the stylistic qualities (e.g goth and glam) that defined the "myspace emo" scene and they managed to do so during the late '90s, which makes them ahead of their time and highly influential. In terms of the charts then, I guess that’s fair to say. I meant Manson was combing glam and goth elements earlier, would say he was barely industrial more alt metal with a mix of influences both goth and glam stick out a bit more., Manson’s mall goth segment of his fanbase which sometimes crossed over with nu metal fanbase from the mid 90s to the early 2000s inspired mid to late 00s emo at least stylistically in a few ways at the very least Album such as golden age of grotesque had some degree of appeal to emo and early gothy emo crossover in 2004 and eat me drink me may have also appealed to mid 00s emo kids and had the emo appeal as an album. I also think of bands like the murder dolls having some kind of appeal as well. Orgy (nu glam industrial metal) From late 1998:  Music video from the same time:
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