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Post by SharksFan99 on Mar 14, 2021 22:00:56 GMT 10
The events that occurred during early 1994 are interesting to read about. We have a bit of an idea on what went down during those tumultuous and troublesome final few months, but there's a lot that we don't know. Both Dave Grohl and Krist Novoselic have alluded to that in interviews. If you read up on some of the events that have been made public, such as Kurt Cobain's escalating heroin use, the unsuccessful intervention, the March '94 Rome incident and the tensions that existed between the three band members, all of the evidence would suggest that Nirvana were on very limited time. Krists' last memory of seeing Kurt alive was when he dropped him off at an airport and the two got in a heated argument which resulted in Kurt punching Krist in the face. That shows just how dire things had become by then.
However, i'm personally of the belief that they would have released at least one more album. It's worth noting that they did book one session in late January 1994 and that resulted in the recording of "You Know You're Right" (my favourite Nirvana song). Kurt also recorded a few home demos on cassette during March 1994 with Pat Smear and Eric Erlandson. I do feel as though something would have came out, whether it had been an EP or a proper album. Given just how bad the circumstances were though, I think they would have eventually broke up sometime around 1995. Dave still would have went on to form the Foo Fighters.
What's your take on this?
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Post by slashpop on Mar 14, 2021 22:22:54 GMT 10
The events that occurred during early 1994 are interesting to read about. We have a bit of an idea on what went down during those tumultuous and troublesome final few months, but there's a lot that we don't know. Both Dave Grohl and Krist Novoselic have alluded to that in interviews. If you read up on some of the events that have been made public, such as Kurt Cobain's escalating heroin use, the unsuccessful intervention, the March '94 Rome incident and the tensions that existed between the three band members, all of the evidence would suggest that Nirvana were on very limited time. Krists' last memory of seeing Kurt alive was when he dropped him off at an airport and the two got in a heated argument which resulted in Kurt punching Krist in the face. That shows just how dire things had become by then. However, i'm personally of the belief that they would have released at least one more album. It's worth noting that they did book one session in late January 1994 and that resulted in the recording of "You Know You're Right" (my favourite Nirvana song). Kurt also recorded a few home demos on cassette during March 1994 with Pat Smear and Eric Erlandson. I do feel as though something would have came out, whether it had been an EP or a proper album. Given just how bad the circumstances were though, I think they would have eventually broke up sometime around 1995. Dave still would have went on to form the Foo Fighters. What's your take on this? Kurt himself said in a late 1993 interview that they did all they could do with 3 chord grunge and that it was time for a change and that music was starting to change and that their next album would be nothing like anyone expected. Im of the belief that part of Kurt’s pre suicide depression was entering new territory and not succeeding, becoming a cliche or not being as successful as earlier.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Mar 14, 2021 22:52:06 GMT 10
Kurt himself said in a late 1993 interview that they did all they could do with 3 chord grunge and that it was time for a change and that music was starting to change and that their next album would be nothing like anyone expected. Im of the belief that part of Kurt’s pre suicide depression was entering new territory and not succeeding, becoming a cliche or not being as successful as earlier. Was that the August 1993 interview on the balcony? I can definitely remember hearing/reading about his desire to move on from grunge. If i'm not mistaken, there's also an MTV interview from December 1993 where he speaks about the progression that The Beatles made between "I Want To Hold Your Hand" and "Sgt. Peppers", and how he had hoped to replicate that with their fourth album. I believe Kurt was definitely heading in that direction. During the European leg of the In Utero tour, Nirvana even played "My Best Friend's Girl" during some of their shows and there's an unreleased home demo from March 1994 called "Talk To Me", which was said by Courtney Love to be very "Devo-esque". I'm of the opinion that the next record could have incorporated new-wave influences and could also have been more 'acoustic'-based. That actually makes a lot of sense. Most of the lyrics that the band used for the songs on In Utero date as far back as 1990, pre- Nevermind. He was also known to have used bits of poetry and old journal entries to come up with new song lyrics.
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Post by slashpop on Mar 14, 2021 23:18:41 GMT 10
Kurt himself said in a late 1993 interview that they did all they could do with 3 chord grunge and that it was time for a change and that music was starting to change and that their next album would be nothing like anyone expected. Im of the belief that part of Kurt’s pre suicide depression was entering new territory and not succeeding, becoming a cliche or not being as successful as earlier. Was that the August 1993 interview on the balcony? I can definitely remember hearing/reading about his desire to move on from grunge. If i'm not mistaken, there's also an MTV interview from December 1993 where he speaks about the progression that The Beatles made between "I Want To Hold Your Hand" and "Sgt. Peppers", and how he had hoped to replicate that with their fourth album. I believe Kurt was definitely heading in that direction. During the European leg of the In Utero tour, Nirvana even played "My Best Friend's Girl" during some of their shows and there's an unreleased home demo from March 1994 called "Talk To Me", which was said by Courtney Love to be very "Devo-esque". I'm of the opinion that the next record could have incorporated new-wave influences and could also have been more 'acoustic'-based. That actually makes a lot of sense. Most of the lyrics that the band used for the songs on In Utero date as far back as 1990, pre- Nevermind. He was also known to have used bits of poetry and old journal entries to come up with new song lyrics. Yes exactly what you stated. There are even more. And a chunk of songs on bleach and incesticide were first played or originally recorded in 1986 and early 1987. People overestimate how big grunge was in the mid 90s. 1993-1994 was the last true grunge period imo. The actual grunge era really started around 1987-1988 when it become more of a solidified and expanded genre than 1986 and slowly faded between mid 94 and mid 1996. You have to understand that grunge was around for 6-7 years by 1995, overcommericalized like emo in the late 00s and their weren’t any groundbreaking first wave grunge albums ( I don’t consider AIC 95 album to be equal to nevermind or ten)...and there was a chunk of groundbreaking artists and new genres that came out of nowhere in 1994. Greenday and korn entering the mainstream was bound to happen even if Kurt lived because Green Day released their album a month before his death and hadn’t released all the singles yet and korn were in the midst of recording their self titled in mid 1994. Nirvana were likely to be overshadowed or not the early 90s nirvana either way, maybe an ep at most.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2021 23:32:41 GMT 10
Cobain never wanted to be famous. For someone with unmedicated mental illness to have to suddenly deal with international superstardom and the internal and external pressures that come with that (which are often too much to handle even for those with ideal mental health), the suicide was inevitable. That being said, I think Nirvana's 4th album may have been their Abbey Road.
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Post by slashpop on Mar 15, 2021 0:20:31 GMT 10
Cobain never wanted to be famous. For someone with unmedicated mental illness to have to suddenly deal with international superstardom and the internal and external pressures that come with that (which are often too much to handle even for those with ideal mental health), the suicide was inevitable. That being said, I think Nirvana's 4th album may have been their Abbey Road. I’m not sure all mental illness categorization labels are completely legitimate or that medication is always a solution but Kurt was both depressed, heavily addicted to herion and frustrated with fame and his social circle which were all equal factors rather than just mental health. There were tons of heavily depressed and/or bipolar artists who didn’t make that decision. I don’t think his suicide was inevitable, I think he was super high and wasn’t in the right state of mind and if he was thinking clearly he likely wouldn’t have done it, especially not a gun to the head. I think all Kurt needed was to take a step back and be away from the band for a while in a better rehab program and find a few constructive things to help him deal with his demons.
SharksFan99 likes this
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Post by SharksFan99 on Mar 15, 2021 10:05:05 GMT 10
Cobain never wanted to be famous. For someone with unmedicated mental illness to have to suddenly deal with international superstardom and the internal and external pressures that come with that (which are often too much to handle even for those with ideal mental health), the suicide was inevitable. That being said, I think Nirvana's 4th album may have been their Abbey Road. I think that's debatable. I would agree that Kurt didn't enjoy the fame after "Smells Like Teen Spirit" became the unexpectedly huge cultural phenomenon that it did, but Nevermind was clearly produced with a commercial intent in mind. It was really a combination of factors that led to the decision to take his own life. The most tragic thing about the circumstances surrounding his death is that it was likely an impulse decision on the day, and as slashpop mentioned, he most likely wouldn't have chosen to take his own life had he not been under the influence of heroin. I don’t think his suicide was inevitable, I think he was super high and wasn’t in the right state of mind and if he was thinking clearly he likely wouldn’t have done it, especially not a gun to the head. I agree, Krist has mentioned that in many interviews over the years as well. The "he should be here" comment Krist makes at the start of this interview really speaks volumes:
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Post by #Infinity on Mar 26, 2021 13:19:36 GMT 10
The backlash against grunge wouldn't have been as pronounced if Cobain hadn't taken his life. So much of the fuss was that the music's negativity basically promoted suicide, so more uplifting bands like Collective Soul became a lot more attractive, while Gen-X angst found a new home in genres less associated with life-destroying drugs such as punk and ska (this was before Brad Nowell overdosed, and his stuff was less mopey anyway, especially "What I Got").
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