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Post by astropoug on Mar 14, 2022 0:56:49 GMT 10
What eras would you say were very shiny and glossy? And which were very gritty? Here are my picks
1970s - Gritty (New Hollywood, The Godfather, Black Sabbath, punk rock)
1980s - Shiny (neon clothing, lasers, synthpop, this is obvious)
Early-mid 1990s - Gritty (grunge, gangsta rap, movies like Se7en, cartoons like Ren and Stimpy, Beavis and Butthead and even The Simpsons had a “grungy” vibe, graffiti aesthetics were popular, very “dirty” looking era)
Late 1990s/Y2K - Shiny (chrome, teen pop, glossy as fuck, SHINY suit rap)
Early-mid 2000s - Gritty (with fake “shininess”) (despite McBling and bedazzled jewelers this was the era of nu metal, emo, more edgy rap, Pirates of the Caribbean and Revenge of the Sith, raunchy gross comedies, games like GTA San Andreas and God of War, graffiti aesthetics returning, etc. Not as shiny as you think, in fact was a BACKLASH against Y2K)
Late 2000s/Early 2010s - Shiny (Frutiger Aero, glass aesthetics in general, electropop, Nyah Cat, lighthearted memes (vs edgier ones from the mid-2010s onward), the Wii)
I have no idea about the mid 2010s onward. I’m thinking mid 10s are still shiny, but the late 10s onward are gritty? Fill in the blanks.
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Post by nightmarefarm on Mar 14, 2022 1:34:29 GMT 10
70s - Both(you had gritty movies and punk rock but disco was a thing)
80s - Shiny
90s - Both, first half leans gritty i think and i would say the second half leans shiny. Dunno though.
Early 00 - Shiny
Mid 00s - Gritty
Late 00s - Gritty
Early 10s - Shiny
Mid 10s - Gritty
Late 10s - Shiny
Early 20s - Gritty
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Post by 10slover on Mar 14, 2022 5:45:01 GMT 10
The 2010s were both shiny and gritty at the same time
Yes, even 2010-2013. Just look up the "indie sleaze" aesthetic
Mid-late 10s were a bit more on the gritty side but still mixed
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Post by 10slover on Mar 14, 2022 5:49:47 GMT 10
70s were 90% gritty lol, even with disco. All the big cities in the USlooked like absolute garbage, color palette was muted, blackout were frequents, gas prices were insane (for the era), everyone hated the president, everyone hated politics...
Also, 1980-1983 was still pretty gritty. Urban decay was still going full swing back then, inflation really bad too (before 83) and classic 80s culture hadn't kicked in yet
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Post by astropoug on Mar 14, 2022 6:06:41 GMT 10
70s were 90% gritty lol, even with disco. All the big cities in the USlooked like absolute garbage, color palette was muted, blackout were frequents, gas prices were insane (for the era), everyone hated the president, everyone hated politics... Also, 1980-1983 was still pretty gritty. Urban decay was still going full swing back then, inflation really bad too (before 83) and classic 80s culture hadn't kicked in yet Have any of you guys seen how cartoons from the 70s looked? Because a lot of them were really grimy looking and muted. Ralph Bakshi's work + Schoolhouse Rock IMO really embody the 70s look the best IMO. By contrast, cartoons from the 80s (well, really 1983-1990) were much more polished looking and colorful (only the art looked polished, animation still had a cheap look to it) And what's funny is that cartoons from the 90s (mostly 1990-1996) are the polar opposite of the 80s: probably the first era of animation since the 50s to be truly dynamic and high-budget, but with a VERY rough aesthetic and vibe to them. Ren and Stimpy is the quintessential example.
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Post by 10slover on Mar 14, 2022 6:20:27 GMT 10
70s were 90% gritty lol, even with disco. All the big cities in the USlooked like absolute garbage, color palette was muted, blackout were frequents, gas prices were insane (for the era), everyone hated the president, everyone hated politics... Also, 1980-1983 was still pretty gritty. Urban decay was still going full swing back then, inflation really bad too (before 83) and classic 80s culture hadn't kicked in yet Have any of you guys seen how cartoons from the 70s looked? Because a lot of them were really grimy looking and muted. Ralph Bakshi's work + Schoolhouse Rock IMO really embody the 70s look the best IMO. By contrast, cartoons from the 80s (well, really 1983-1990) were much more polished looking and colorful (only the art looked polished, animation still had a cheap look to it) And what's funny is that cartoons from the 90s (mostly 1990-1996) are the polar opposite of the 80s: probably the first era of animation since the 50s to be truly dynamic and high-budget, but with a VERY rough aesthetic and vibe to them. Ren and Stimpy is the quintessential example. 70s culture, in general, was very grimy... From movies to music, books, children's media, art and architecture Even the music video for staying alive looks grimy as fuck, that's peak 70s urban decay for ya
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Post by astropoug on Mar 14, 2022 6:33:28 GMT 10
Have any of you guys seen how cartoons from the 70s looked? Because a lot of them were really grimy looking and muted. Ralph Bakshi's work + Schoolhouse Rock IMO really embody the 70s look the best IMO. By contrast, cartoons from the 80s (well, really 1983-1990) were much more polished looking and colorful (only the art looked polished, animation still had a cheap look to it) And what's funny is that cartoons from the 90s (mostly 1990-1996) are the polar opposite of the 80s: probably the first era of animation since the 50s to be truly dynamic and high-budget, but with a VERY rough aesthetic and vibe to them. Ren and Stimpy is the quintessential example. 70s culture, in general, was very grimy... From movies to music, books, children's media, art and architecture Even the music video for staying alive looks grimy as fuck, that's peak 70s urban decay for ya Maybe that's why The Godfather was such a big hit. It perfectly captures the gritty vibe and urban decay of 70s culture. Also again, Ralph Bakshi's movies embody the 70s perfectly, specifically Fritz the Cat, Heavy Traffic, and Coonskin. Oh yeah, forgot how popular Kool-Aid was in the 70s LMAO
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Post by astropoug on Mar 14, 2022 6:45:16 GMT 10
I tend to view the mid 2000s and late 70s the same way. Very much surface-level shininess with disco and nightclubs in the late 70s, and McBling/bedazzling in the mid 2000s, but both were actually very gritty feeling.
Mid 2000s was less about urban decay so much as it was things like glorification of street life, drugs, lots of violence and swearing, and sexualization. Gangsta rap and emo define the mid 2000s zeitgeist for me.
The early-mid 2000s have a more "gritty suburban" vibe though to me, if it makes sense. Think bad neighborhoods in Atlanta or Detroit vs New York or Philadelphia.
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Post by al on Mar 14, 2022 8:53:08 GMT 10
Mid 2000's leans shiny for me. Even the whole thug and emo thing was not truly gritty imo because there was still such a commercialized, mall-ish aspect to it. The goal still felt like accumulating stuff, or at least purchasing a lifestyle. I actually think the early 00's felt a bit less like this comparatively, but on their own there was this striving glossiness. The late 00's by contrast had the recession giving a grittier feel, though it was still cheesy with some neon elements to not make it that strong.
The 2010's really have a bit of each in all micro eras.
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Post by Telso on Mar 14, 2022 9:37:29 GMT 10
I tend to view the mid 2000s and late 70s the same way. Very much surface-level shininess with disco and nightclubs in the late 70s, and McBling/bedazzling in the mid 2000s, but both were actually very gritty feeling. Mid 2000s was less about urban decay so much as it was things like glorification of street life, drugs, lots of violence and swearing, and sexualization. Gangsta rap and emo define the mid 2000s zeitgeist for me. Even if gangsta rap was the most major thing in the mid-00s, which it wasn't compared to lighter club rap styles, it was definitely far more glamorous and extravagant compared to before. It was less about "glorification of street life and violence", and more about going to clubs and livin' it up in mansions.
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Post by astropoug on Mar 14, 2022 10:26:29 GMT 10
Mid 2000's leans shiny for me. Even the whole thug and emo thing was not truly gritty imo because there was still such a commercialized, mall-ish aspect to it. The goal still felt like accumulating stuff, or at least purchasing a lifestyle. I actually think the early 00's felt a bit less like this comparatively, but on their own there was this striving glossiness. The late 00's by contrast had the recession giving a grittier feel, though it was still cheesy with some neon elements to not make it that strong. The 2010's really have a bit of each in all micro eras. I get what you mean, so-called "mallcore" and other such stuff, but that didn't necessarily make the vibe shiny IMO. Hot Topic was huge back then, and they had a very gritty aesthetic to them. I'm talking about from an aesthetic perspective more than anything really. I think the late 2000s is somewhat mixed actually because games back then were mostly Call of Duty type stuff, but music was starting to become more lighthearted. Souija Boy, Lady Gaga, and whatnot. So were movies. Have you SEEN 2005-2006 era movies? They're some of the most darkest movies to have ever graced the big screen. Even franchise films like Revenge of the Sith and Batman Begins were dark and gritty. Contrast both with, say, Phantom Menace and Batman and Robin, very cheesy lighthearted movies from the glossy and shiny late 90s.
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Post by astropoug on Mar 14, 2022 10:32:58 GMT 10
I tend to view the mid 2000s and late 70s the same way. Very much surface-level shininess with disco and nightclubs in the late 70s, and McBling/bedazzling in the mid 2000s, but both were actually very gritty feeling. Mid 2000s was less about urban decay so much as it was things like glorification of street life, drugs, lots of violence and swearing, and sexualization. Gangsta rap and emo define the mid 2000s zeitgeist for me. Even if gangsta rap was the most major thing in the mid-00s, which it wasn't compared to lighter club rap styles, it was definitely far more glamorous and extravagant compared to before. It was less about "glorification of street life and violence", and more about going to clubs and livin' it up in mansions. Whilst that might be true, keep in mind that truly gritty rap has only ever really represented the mainstream twice, once in the mid 90s with gangsta rap, and again in the late 2010s with emo rap and scream rap. However, even if mid 2000s rap isn't as gritty as rap from the mid 90s, overall, the vibe was still substantially grittier than, say, the late 90s, defined by shiny suit rap, teen pop, and EDM, or the late 2000s/early 2010s with electropop and pop rap. Not to mention that, from an aesthetic perspective, it was quite gritty, especially since the whole era was largely a backlash against seemingly shallow pop culture from the late 90s and Y2K era. Just look at movies like Batman Begins from this time period.
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Post by astropoug on Mar 14, 2022 10:54:32 GMT 10
Keep in mind too, we're talking about POP culture here. People generally listen to music to have a good time, people watch movies and TV generally for escapism, etc. If you want something truly gritty and edgy, you generally have to look towards edgier "alternative culture".
And that's really my true basis for how edgy or gritty an era was: was there any countering edginess in the culture?
Take the early 2010s for example. I find this era extremely cheesy, lighthearted, hedonistic, and shallow. The two largest subcultures during this time were hipsters and scene kids, neither are exactly known for edginess. In fact, the early 2010s, I would argue, actually SURPASS the 80s in terms of being a lighthearted glossy era, because in the 80s, you did have things like drugs, heavy metal, goth, and continuing urban decay from the 70s, not to mention the birth of cyberpunk. There's virtually NOTHING edgy, dark, or gritty about the early 2010s. Maybe except for video games like Call of Duty, but even that loses its superficial edginess once you've joined a match and realize it's mostly stupid kids playing it. It wasn't even like the mid-late 2000s where you had genuinely gritty games like Half-Life 2 and Gears of War.
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Post by al on Mar 14, 2022 11:03:26 GMT 10
I get what you mean, so-called "mallcore" and other such stuff, but that didn't necessarily make the vibe shiny IMO. Hot Topic was huge back then, and they had a very gritty aesthetic to them. I'm talking about from an aesthetic perspective more than anything really. I think the late 2000s is somewhat mixed actually because games back then were mostly Call of Duty type stuff, but music was starting to become more lighthearted. Souija Boy, Lady Gaga, and whatnot. So were movies. Have you SEEN 2005-2006 era movies? They're some of the most darkest movies to have ever graced the big screen. Even franchise films like Revenge of the Sith and Batman Begins were dark and gritty. Contrast both with, say, Phantom Menace and Batman and Robin, very cheesy lighthearted movies from the glossy and shiny late 90s. The fact that Hot Topic WAS a mall store with mass-produced stuff bought by wannabe middle schoolers is why I don't see it as gritty. As highlighted in the South Park episode where the goth kids burn down Hot Topic because it's for poseurs. The mid 2000's was a big poseur era IMO kids would regularly talk about it. And I saw enough movies then like High School Musical and Cheaper by the Dozen 2 that had a pretty cutesy fun vibe. But hey just my opinion.
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Post by astropoug on Mar 14, 2022 11:10:19 GMT 10
I get what you mean, so-called "mallcore" and other such stuff, but that didn't necessarily make the vibe shiny IMO. Hot Topic was huge back then, and they had a very gritty aesthetic to them. I'm talking about from an aesthetic perspective more than anything really. I think the late 2000s is somewhat mixed actually because games back then were mostly Call of Duty type stuff, but music was starting to become more lighthearted. Souija Boy, Lady Gaga, and whatnot. So were movies. Have you SEEN 2005-2006 era movies? They're some of the most darkest movies to have ever graced the big screen. Even franchise films like Revenge of the Sith and Batman Begins were dark and gritty. Contrast both with, say, Phantom Menace and Batman and Robin, very cheesy lighthearted movies from the glossy and shiny late 90s. The fact that Hot Topic WAS a mall store with mass-produced stuff bought by wannabe middle schoolers is why I don't see it as gritty. As highlighted in the South Park episode where the goth kids burn down Hot Topic because it's for poseurs. The mid 2000's was a big poseur era IMO kids would regularly talk about it. And I saw enough movies then like High School Musical and Cheaper by the Dozen 2 that had a pretty cutesy fun vibe. But hey just my opinion. TBH, you're not wrong about that. It was, dare I say it, a very corporate kind of edginess. You're also right that there was lighthearted pop culture from this time like High School Musical that defined the zeitgeist. TBH though, I see HSM as more of a late 2000s thing honestly in terms of its vibe. Like the late 2000s had a very teenybopper Disney Channel vibe, Hannah Montana and Jonas Brothers type stuff, which gave way for teen pop as a whole to make a comeback in the EXTREMELY cheesy and lighthearted early 2010s. But IMO HSM doesn't define mid 2000s culture for me. To me, mid 2000s culture was mostly a backlash against Y2K cultural things like Pokemon, chrome aesthetics, and teen pop, so you wound up with things like Halo and Grand Theft Auto, emo, and grungy graffiti aesthetics that were about as far away from that as you could get.
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