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Post by SharksFan99 on Sept 10, 2018 16:54:04 GMT 10
This is an issue which I have noticed more and more often in recent times and I would be interested to hear other people's thoughts on the matter. Women's rights and equality have made significant in-roads over the past few decades. While there is still more that can be done to improve those two key aspects, the level of equality between the two genders has never been better. Yet, despite this, the increasing importance of women's rights has resulted in people with bad intentions to jump on the bandwagon and spread their own personal agendas, even if they are unrelated to the goals of the feminism movement. Don't get me wrong, I am all for gender equality and strong female role models, but I personally think the feminism movement has become a toxic environment for social justice warriors to express their views to the public. A recent example is Serena William's emotional outburst at the US Open, where allegations of cheating led to her claiming that she was the victim of sexism and umpire misconduct. In her post-match press conference, Williams stated that she was "fighting for women's rights and women's equality". This has been blown out of proportions in the media and now it has turned into a heated debate about gender inequality in sport. I feel as though Serena has used the concept of feminism to justify her actions at the US Open, which were wrong and deserved to be punished. She called the umpire a "thief" and jeopardized Naomi Osaka's victory, which was significant in it's own right. Retired tennis star Casey Dellacqua has summed it up perfectly; "there's no doubt over the years in tennis, it has been a sport that has had gender issues and I think we made a lot of gains in that sense. But what happened in this match, it just unravelled from the first code violation and then her emotions were running high." I'm sorry, but these ridiculous 'sexism' allegations need to stop. Males are constantly made out to be these horrible human beings who suppress female empowerment and it's becoming all too common in the media. Social media has created a whirlpool where anything men do (which may be questionable) is immediately deemed as sexist and anti-feminist. Another example is this recent Facebook post made by Greens MP, Adam Bandt, in which he referred to his wife of eleven years as being "hot": Now people are claiming that his wife was "sexually objectified" and it shouldn't be a "public statement". Oh, please. This is getting beyond a joke. What are your thoughts on this and do you believe there is merit behind these allegations?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 1:44:23 GMT 10
I'm all for feminism and equality. But some feminists take it too far. Equality means being the same as one another, no more, no less.
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Post by al on Sept 11, 2018 12:09:44 GMT 10
I'm afraid "Feminism" is going to lose its legitimacy as a term thanks to people using it to justify whatever they want. One of the biggest problems I'm having with the narrative (according to some) right now is the idea that women can do no wrong. There are plenty of problems that women perpetuate themselves, and even if inequality served as the initial basis of them, we can choose to change how we respond. Instead we've been seeing people use the "feminism card" to excuse their poor actions or get off on being all high and mighty. It's unfortunate because I do feel we've been making some confronting issues that still exist.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Sept 11, 2018 12:56:45 GMT 10
I'm afraid "Feminism" is going to lose its legitimacy as a term thanks to people using it to justify whatever they want. One of the biggest problems I'm having with the narrative (according to some) right now is the idea that women can do no wrong. There are plenty of problems that women perpetuate themselves, and even if inequality served as the initial basis of them, we can choose to change how we respond. Instead we've been seeing people use the "feminism card" to excuse their poor actions or get off on being all high and mighty. It's unfortunate because I do feel we've been making some confronting issues that still exist. I agree. In the pursuit of accomplishing their own agendas, many people have forgotten about the basic principals of the feminism movement; that being the idea of achieving equality across all aspects of life. The trouble is, what can be done to rectify the issue? Social media allows for anyone to share their own personal views and their views could potentially be seen by millions of people. The "Feminism" term has arguably already lost most of it's legitimacy, as it's basically only being used as an avenue for social justice warriors to vent about societal issues and fulfill whatever selfish interests they have. It's a shame that the movement has degraded to the state that it is in, because real progress has been made over the past several decades to achieve greater equality for women. Like a lot of different concepts/topics, however, the movement has become a victim of social media's toxic, cut-throat environment of exploiting information for personal gain.
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Post by skullmaiden on Sept 12, 2018 7:30:27 GMT 10
I'm afraid "Feminism" is going to lose its legitimacy as a term thanks to people using it to justify whatever they want. One of the biggest problems I'm having with the narrative (according to some) right now is the idea that women can do no wrong. There are plenty of problems that women perpetuate themselves, and even if inequality served as the initial basis of them, we can choose to change how we respond. Instead we've been seeing people use the "feminism card" to excuse their poor actions or get off on being all high and mighty. It's unfortunate because I do feel we've been making some confronting issues that still exist. I agree. In the pursuit of accomplishing their own agendas, many people have forgotten about the basic principals of the feminism movement; that being the idea of achieving equality across all aspects of life. The trouble is, what can be done to rectify the issue? Social media allows for anyone to share their own personal views and their views could potentially be seen by millions of people. The "Feminism" term has arguably already lost most of it's legitimacy, as it's basically only being used as an avenue for social justice warriors to vent about societal issues and fulfill whatever selfish interests they have. It's a shame that the movement has degraded to the state that it is in, because real progress has been made over the past several decades to achieve greater equality for women. Like a lot of different concepts/topics, however, the movement has become a victim of social media's toxic, cut-throat environment of exploiting information for personal gain. Feminism at it's core is supposed to be about achieving equality like you said, just with focus on issues women face. SJW types give the whole thing a bad name with their militant ways and demanding everything be intersectional or it's not real feminism. People like that love to be unhappy so even with improvements made they find something else to attack, however petty. Rageaholics is what you might say they are.
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Post by al on Sept 12, 2018 12:34:39 GMT 10
There is a theory that feminism is actually about fighting the hatred of femininity. I don't know if I agree in relation to all contexts, but I think it makes a good point. However, if we look at it in terms of what has society has deemed feminine (rather than that women innately have feminine qualities and men have masculine ones), then men should be getting helped by it too. There are breeds of feminists who cannot see men as having any problems at all, unless perhaps they are trans or homosexual, when in reality they can be very much affected by issues like abuse, rape and simple gendered expectations. To instead perpetuate judgment and aggression is to just give the mentality you claim to be in opposition to a new face.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Sept 12, 2018 22:29:20 GMT 10
Feminism at it's core is supposed to be about achieving equality like you said, just with focus on issues women face. SJW types give the whole thing a bad name with their militant ways and demanding everything be intersectional or it's not real feminism. People like that love to be unhappy so even with improvements made they find something else to attack, however petty. Rageaholics is what you might say they are. Yep, I agree on all points. If steps are to be made in improving the overall current state of feminism and to progress the movement forward, the issue with SJWs needs to be addressed first and foremost. Otherwise, we will continue to see a trend of hate speech filtered through in the form of different societal movements. The full potential of the feminism movement will never be reached if social media solely influences it's trajectory. There is a theory that feminism is actually about fighting the hatred of femininity. I don't know if I agree in relation to all contexts, but I think it makes a good point. However, if we look at it in terms of what has society has deemed feminine (rather than that women innately have feminine qualities and men have masculine ones), then men should be getting helped by it too. There are breeds of feminists who cannot see men as having any problems at all, unless perhaps they are trans or homosexual, when in reality they can be very much affected by issues like abuse, rape and simple gendered expectations. To instead perpetuate judgment and aggression is to just give the mentality you claim to be in opposition to a new face. Agreed. There is definitely merit by that theory, but like you mentioned, it shouldn't apply to all contexts. I personally don't think feminism can be contributed to a single cause. Feminists may have a common goal, but people's motives differ from one another and there are a variety of different factors which lead to someone having the viewpoint that they have. Fighting the hatred of femininity would definitely play a part, no doubt. It's just that feminism itself is a multi-layered concept and it would be naive of someone to think that something so complex is defined by a "black and white" mentality.
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Post by skullmaiden on Sept 14, 2018 20:24:04 GMT 10
Feminism at it's core is supposed to be about achieving equality like you said, just with focus on issues women face. SJW types give the whole thing a bad name with their militant ways and demanding everything be intersectional or it's not real feminism. People like that love to be unhappy so even with improvements made they find something else to attack, however petty. Rageaholics is what you might say they are. Yep, I agree on all points. If steps are to be made in improving the overall current state of feminism and to progress the movement forward, the issue with SJWs needs to be addressed first and foremost. Otherwise, we will continue to see a trend of hate speech filtered through in the form of different societal movements. The full potential of the feminism movement will never be reached if social media solely influences it's trajectory. There is a theory that feminism is actually about fighting the hatred of femininity. I don't know if I agree in relation to all contexts, but I think it makes a good point. However, if we look at it in terms of what has society has deemed feminine (rather than that women innately have feminine qualities and men have masculine ones), then men should be getting helped by it too. There are breeds of feminists who cannot see men as having any problems at all, unless perhaps they are trans or homosexual, when in reality they can be very much affected by issues like abuse, rape and simple gendered expectations. To instead perpetuate judgment and aggression is to just give the mentality you claim to be in opposition to a new face. Agreed. There is definitely merit by that theory, but like you mentioned, it shouldn't apply to all contexts. I personally don't think feminism can be contributed to a single cause. Feminists may have a common goal, but people's motives differ from one another and there are a variety of different factors which lead to someone having the viewpoint that they have. Fighting the hatred of femininity would definitely play a part, no doubt. It's just that feminism itself is a multi-layered concept and it would be naive of someone to think that something so complex is defined by a "black and white" mentality. SJWs are dealt with in two ways from what I've seen. Either they're not taken seriously at all and people just laugh them off, or people take them too seriously and start giving in to their demands. The truly awful ones stoop to things like doxxing to name and shame their opponents into submission and make everything so toxic the more reasonable feminists don't dare speak up. Radical feminism as a whole is not unified. There are sub groups of it that don't get along with other sub groups due to small differences of opinion they can't get over. There's so much infighting among them. The hatred of femininity theory wouldn't be wrong. They do have a point that gender roles shouldn't be so rigid, as in boys are "supposed to" behave more rowdy, and girls are "supposed to" be ladylike and dainty at all times or saying certain tasks are "women's work" or whatever. It's a changing attitude as time goes on, but genders still gravitate towards liking what they like. If a few people are a little more non conforming that's fine too. Most people are not living up to a gender stereotype 100%. Militant feminists take it too far by purposely shunning all things feminine just to make some stupid point and none of them truly appear to be happy once they've gone to that level. They aren't comfortable with who they are so they belittle others. The fat acceptance movement for example is one of these things that goes hand in hand with it lately. There are some who believe no woman truly diets and becomes active to get healthy, it's always about looks and to say otherwise is being in denial and giving in to standards set by the "patriarchy" they're always harping on about. Instead of trying to better themselves it's easier to place blame and complain.
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Post by al on Sept 15, 2018 7:42:17 GMT 10
Yep, I agree on all points. If steps are to be made in improving the overall current state of feminism and to progress the movement forward, the issue with SJWs needs to be addressed first and foremost. Otherwise, we will continue to see a trend of hate speech filtered through in the form of different societal movements. The full potential of the feminism movement will never be reached if social media solely influences it's trajectory. Agreed. There is definitely merit by that theory, but like you mentioned, it shouldn't apply to all contexts. I personally don't think feminism can be contributed to a single cause. Feminists may have a common goal, but people's motives differ from one another and there are a variety of different factors which lead to someone having the viewpoint that they have. Fighting the hatred of femininity would definitely play a part, no doubt. It's just that feminism itself is a multi-layered concept and it would be naive of someone to think that something so complex is defined by a "black and white" mentality. SJWs are dealt with in two ways from what I've seen. Either they're not taken seriously at all and people just laugh them off, or people take them too seriously and start giving in to their demands. The truly awful ones stoop to things like doxxing to name and shame their opponents into submission and make everything so toxic the more reasonable feminists don't dare speak up. Radical feminism as a whole is not unified. There are sub groups of it that don't get along with other sub groups due to small differences of opinion they can't get over. There's so much infighting among them. The hatred of femininity theory wouldn't be wrong. They do have a point that gender roles shouldn't be so rigid, as in boys are "supposed to" behave more rowdy, and girls are "supposed to" be ladylike and dainty at all times or saying certain tasks are "women's work" or whatever. It's a changing attitude as time goes on, but genders still gravitate towards liking what they like. If a few people are a little more non conforming that's fine too. Most people are not living up to a gender stereotype 100%. Militant feminists take it too far by purposely shunning all things feminine just to make some stupid point and none of them truly appear to be happy once they've gone to that level. They aren't comfortable with who they are so they belittle others. The fat acceptance movement for example is one of these things that goes hand in hand with it lately. There are some who believe no woman truly diets and becomes active to get healthy, it's always about looks and to say otherwise is being in denial and giving in to standards set by the "patriarchy" they're always harping on about. Instead of trying to better themselves it's easier to place blame and complain. I'll never understand the types who shun all things feminine just to prove a point, like the ones who won't let their daughters play with dolls or wear pink. If you naturally just don't like that stuff, totally fine. But playing it that way is having detrimental affects on the legacy of feminism. You are essentially embodying the behavior of the men you supposedly are fighting. No you don't want to crush the patriarchy, you want to be the patriarchy. Let's trade one aggressor for another. This is what loses a lot of people, especially when many men are realizing that they too do better free of rigid expectations. They also miss how contradictory their assigning of gender, and corresponding opinion, on to things like clothing and occupations is. The ironic thing is, I'm sure the same people who hate Barbies would buy one for their son if they asked. Luckily I do think this line of thinking is getting outdated.
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Post by skullmaiden on Sept 16, 2018 16:01:27 GMT 10
I don't know if photos like this are allowed, but this is the notorious "noose girl" picture taken in Chile on March 8, 2018 (Woman's Day 2018). What are your thoughts about it? I personally think that it is complete melodrama and serves as nothing constructive whatsoever.  I don't know the story behind the picture, but it looks like she got burned.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2018 22:17:38 GMT 10
I don't know if photos like this are allowed, but this is the notorious "noose girl" picture taken in Chile on March 8, 2018 (Woman's Day 2018). What are your thoughts about it? I personally think that it is complete melodrama and serves as nothing constructive whatsoever. I don't know the story behind the picture, but it looks like she got burned. Hopefully I don't sound insensitive, but I think those burn marks are make up because if those were actually burn marks, she wouldn't be doing that.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Sept 16, 2018 22:22:43 GMT 10
I don't know if photos like this are allowed, but this is the notorious "noose girl" picture taken in Chile on March 8, 2018 (Woman's Day 2018). What are your thoughts about it? I personally think that it is complete melodrama and serves as nothing constructive whatsoever. To be honest, I feel as though I shouldn't make a judgement without knowing the finer details behind the act. If she was only doing it to gain attention, however, then I would agree that it served no purpose.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2018 22:31:36 GMT 10
I don't know the story behind the picture, but it looks like she got burned. Hopefully I don't sound insensitive, but I think those burn marks are make up because if those were actually burn marks, she wouldn't be doing that. I don't see the point of that. It's not like she knew her image was going to be plastered all over the Internet?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2018 23:28:44 GMT 10
I'm going to remove the picture; I really hope that I didn't cause a lot of controversy on here.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Sept 16, 2018 23:37:49 GMT 10
I'm going to remove the picture; I really hope that I didn't cause a lot of controversy on here. You haven't caused any controversy. You're welcome to keep the picture in your post if you'd like to.
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