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Post by Captain Nemo on Mar 6, 2021 20:33:25 GMT 10
Disclaimer: This topic at hand is a very sensitive topic for many people. If your answer to the question is "no", please be rational and respectful in your rebuttal, and be aware of how any trans person who might read your statement may react.
I was watching on one live TV show today where a poll was asked, and viewers answered online, whether trans people should participate in women's sports. The vast majority voted "No", voting along the lines that allowing trans people to compete in women's sports puts women at a serious disadvantage. This narrative is not only being promoted by conservatives, but also a faction of feminists as well, colloquially known as TERFs (Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists). Their concerns are that those who are born biological male have serious physical advantages due to bone structure, and that it's fallacious to think that pumping estrogen into them is going to fix that, as estrogen is not a weakening hormone contrary to popular belief, matter of fact the reason that old ladies are as frail as they are is because they lack estrogen. There are also, of course, those on the right who are against transgender people competing in women's sports for obvious reasons of transphobia, as well as belief that transgenders don't exist because trans women still have Y chromosomes.
Here's my piece on this. Now, I don't understand everything about what makes a person transgender as I am not transgender myself, and I apologize in advance if I offend anyone here, as that is not my intention. This is just my opinion garnered from my knowledge on this subject.
To me, I'm only for transgender people competing in women's sports if they have a biological basis for their transition, if they were born intersex. Intersex is if they are physically one gender but have more biological traits of another gender. Common cases of this include boys producing estrogen as their primary growth hormone, and girls producing testosterone as their primary growth hormone. This is especially common with boys who have multiple older brothers, as their fetus is washed in estrogen while in their mother's womb, this could perhaps be due to the mother's womb not having much testosterone left over from having too many boys beforehand, but I could be wrong. Rarer cases of this include boys being born with ovaries, or girls being born with testicles. These cases, like I mentioned, are rare, but they do happen. Also, for conservatives who follow the "trans women still have Y chromosomes" argument, they should learn that it's possible for cis women to be born with Y chromosomes as well, so the narrative of XX for women and XY for men is actually quite fallacious.
Case in point, if there is a biological basis for their transition, then I am all for it, although I do think there should also perhaps be an emphasis on not only hormone therapy and genital transition, but also surgically altering their bodies to match the gender they have transitioned into, which is easier to do now than it used to be due to the technology we now have at hand. A trans woman of this facet should be fine competing in women's sports, as they shouldn't have any biological physical advances at that point, and should be at a level playing field with all of the cis women they are playing against.
Now, for those that transition because of social reasons, and have little to no biological basis behind their transition, that's where I personally disagree with it, and can understand TERF concerns relating to these athletes participating in women's sports, although I still think that these facets of transgender people should still be treated with kindness and respect regardless.
However, conservatives have no room to talk regarding the social facet, because their pagan models of masculinity & feminity are the primary facets perpetuating this situation by promoting the bullshit notion that men need to be sturdy & dirty and women need to be pretty & clean. I've already discussed this in a previous thread of mine, but if these conservatives are ones to cling to Christianity, they have no room to talk. Jesus Christ, the ultimate male role model, was one who showed his emotions (even wept), taught about turning the other cheek and taking up one's cross, was gentle and empathetic, and requested that all praise should be reserved for God and not for any man. Not only that, but a Christian man cannot consider themselves an "Alpha Male", because God is the Alpha and the Omega, and they also cannot have sex with a bunch of women to prove themselves a stud, because adultery is a sin which specifically violates one of the Ten Commandments. This conservative obsession with "sturdy and dirty" masculinity is rooted in paganism, not in Christianity, that's also why many of these conservatives fetishize barbaric ancient cultures such as the Vikings, Spartans, and Romans despite them all being pagan, and the latter one in fact being the facet of paganism that Christ entered the world into. These conservatives are perpetuating this issue in making these specific boys and girls feel like they don't fit as their biological gender, and are pushing them to seek transgenderism as an escape. Not only conservatives, but the entertainment industry and pornography industry are also to blame for this as well, especially the Disney Renaissance films which I'm thinking of making a thread on in the future, as in my opinion, those movies set a terrible example for children. Case in point, if you're against non-intersex people becoming transgender for social reasons, then stop promoting bullshit pagan notions of gender roles, because then you're just perpetuating the problem. You don't need to be sturdy & dirty to be a man, and you don't need to be pretty & clean to be a woman. Also, this is just a thought, but perhaps if we as men all looked to Jesus Christ as our sole role model, promoting a model of masculinity which is gentle, humble, empathetic, and altruistic, albeit still stern and strict when it needs to be as well but only in a matter which is constructive and not destructive, working to serve God above all else, and stopped looking up to entertainers and frauds such as John Wayne, Sean Connery, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Bruce Willis, Tom Cruise, or Jordan Peterson, perhaps more males, as well as more females, wouldn't feel a need to go through a gender transition, because they wouldn't feel like an outcast based on their gender. Just a thought.
Now, I'm sure there are other social reasons besides the ones I brought up which may cause a person to become transgender. It could also perhaps have something to do with their family. It could be other reasons, I'm not one to judge, as again, I'm not transgender, I have no clue what it's like to be transgender. Not only that, but I wouldn't imagine the "sturdy & dirty" masculine model would be the primary cause pushing these biological males to transition into females if they're still going to be partaking in a sport, although again I could be wrong. This is all just from my observation and knowledge regarding this subject.
What is your opinion regarding this subject? Again, be respectful and rational if your answer is "no", and be aware of who may be reading your rebuttal.
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Post by rainbow on Mar 7, 2021 1:09:03 GMT 10
I don’t consider intersex people trans unless they have gender dysphoria. Being trans would imply that you have gender dysphoria that makes you feel like you were born in the wrong body. Intersex people were just born with male and female parts. You need dysphoria to be trans.
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Post by Cassie on Mar 7, 2021 1:41:22 GMT 10
Yes. I think it's transphobic and bigoted to block them off from them.
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Post by SharksFan99 on Mar 7, 2021 10:00:08 GMT 10
I think there should be a set of physical attributes/criteria which trans people must pass to be able to compete with people of the same gender. For example, a lot of trans women have a much bigger physical frame (i.e broader shoulders) than ciswomen and in high-contact sports such as football, it could potentially give transwomen an unfair advantage. That isn't too say that everyone should be painted with the same brush though. Some people are naturally not as solid built as others, and in that case, there should be no issue with them participating in sport with others who have similar physical features, whether they are transgender or not.
So I voted "no". However, it should be determined on an case by case basis.
Captain Nemo likes this
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 9:20:23 GMT 10
Depends: is the person in questioned transitioned to a female? If so, then yes. If the person transitioned to male, they should probably participate in male sports instead.
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Post by al on Mar 11, 2021 1:46:01 GMT 10
I voted No. I was actually pretty indifferent to this issue until I began seeing incidents of MtF athletes having a pretty clear competitive advantage. Many of said athletes were mediocre competitors in the men's division prior to their transition, and then upon entry in the women's division, began moving up the ranks. While it does seem fair to provide some leniency dependent on one's degree of having transitioned, there are still some interfering anatomical matters unrelated to hormone levels. For example, a female pelvis is a different shape than that of a male, in order to accommodate pregnancy and childbirth. As a result, female running speeds comparatively suffer. Sports that require running, which includes many of them, will ultimately favor AMAB bodies when either have done an equal amount of training. Even utilizing height or strength standards, there are still issues of vital organs operating at an increased capacity. Female bodies do benefit from increased flexibility, however, examples have yet to surface of FtM athletes dominating over their male counterparts in any sport.
These issues are going to be most relevant regarding competitions, particularly those rewarding scholarships or cash prizes. Individual leagues, namely recreational ones, are going to have to make determinations about who to permit on their own, as I'm not really sure it should be up to the federal government.
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Post by Captain Nemo on Mar 21, 2021 3:32:57 GMT 10
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Post by y2kbaby on Apr 3, 2021 3:26:09 GMT 10
Should Trans Women participate in Women's Sports? For me personally, NO! They should do sports for the Trans people. There's a men sports, women sports. Why not Trans People Sports?
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Post by crystalmetheny0428 on Apr 3, 2022 9:14:04 GMT 10
al likes this
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Post by 10slover on Apr 4, 2022 7:22:34 GMT 10
Nope, big time. I think we should talk about trans men in male sports too, they get a pass at taking testosterone, a steroid. Cis guys can't do that, obviously. I do find it funny that no one gives a shit about women's sports outside of this topic though.
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Post by carcar on May 27, 2022 5:10:38 GMT 10
Disclaimer: This topic at hand is a very sensitive topic for many people. If your answer to the question is "no", please be rational and respectful in your rebuttal, and be aware of how any trans person who might read your statement may react.
I was watching on one live TV show today where a poll was asked, and viewers answered online, whether trans people should participate in women's sports. The vast majority voted "No", voting along the lines that allowing trans people to compete in women's sports puts women at a serious disadvantage. This narrative is not only being promoted by conservatives, but also a faction of feminists as well, colloquially known as TERFs (Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists). Their concerns are that those who are born biological male have serious physical advantages due to bone structure, and that it's fallacious to think that pumping estrogen into them is going to fix that, as estrogen is not a weakening hormone contrary to popular belief, matter of fact the reason that old ladies are as frail as they are is because they lack estrogen. There are also, of course, those on the right who are against transgender people competing in women's sports for obvious reasons of transphobia, as well as belief that transgenders don't exist because trans women still have Y chromosomes.
Here's my piece on this. Now, I don't understand everything about what makes a person transgender as I am not transgender myself, and I apologize in advance if I offend anyone here, as that is not my intention. This is just my opinion garnered from my knowledge on this subject.
To me, I'm only for transgender people competing in women's sports if they have a biological basis for their transition, if they were born intersex. Intersex is if they are physically one gender but have more biological traits of another gender. Common cases of this include boys producing estrogen as their primary growth hormone, and girls producing testosterone as their primary growth hormone. This is especially common with boys who have multiple older brothers, as their fetus is washed in estrogen while in their mother's womb, this could perhaps be due to the mother's womb not having much testosterone left over from having too many boys beforehand, but I could be wrong. Rarer cases of this include boys being born with ovaries, or girls being born with testicles. These cases, like I mentioned, are rare, but they do happen. Also, for conservatives who follow the "trans women still have Y chromosomes" argument, they should learn that it's possible for cis women to be born with Y chromosomes as well, so the narrative of XX for women and XY for men is actually quite fallacious.
Case in point, if there is a biological basis for their transition, then I am all for it, although I do think there should also perhaps be an emphasis on not only hormone therapy and genital transition, but also surgically altering their bodies to match the gender they have transitioned into, which is easier to do now than it used to be due to the technology we now have at hand. A trans woman of this facet should be fine competing in women's sports, as they shouldn't have any biological physical advances at that point, and should be at a level playing field with all of the cis women they are playing against.
Now, for those that transition because of social reasons, and have little to no biological basis behind their transition, that's where I personally disagree with it, and can understand TERF concerns relating to these athletes participating in women's sports, although I still think that these facets of transgender people should still be treated with kindness and respect regardless.
However, conservatives have no room to talk regarding the social facet, because their pagan models of masculinity & feminity are the primary facets perpetuating this situation by promoting the bullshit notion that men need to be sturdy & dirty and women need to be pretty & clean. I've already discussed this in a previous thread of mine, but if these conservatives are ones to cling to Christianity, they have no room to talk. Jesus Christ, the ultimate male role model, was one who showed his emotions (even wept), taught about turning the other cheek and taking up one's cross, was gentle and empathetic, and requested that all praise should be reserved for God and not for any man. Not only that, but a Christian man cannot consider themselves an "Alpha Male", because God is the Alpha and the Omega, and they also cannot have sex with a bunch of women to prove themselves a stud, because adultery is a sin which specifically violates one of the Ten Commandments. This conservative obsession with "sturdy and dirty" masculinity is rooted in paganism, not in Christianity, that's also why many of these conservatives fetishize barbaric ancient cultures such as the Vikings, Spartans, and Romans despite them all being pagan, and the latter one in fact being the facet of paganism that Christ entered the world into. These conservatives are perpetuating this issue in making these specific boys and girls feel like they don't fit as their biological gender, and are pushing them to seek transgenderism as an escape. Not only conservatives, but the entertainment industry and pornography industry are also to blame for this as well, especially the Disney Renaissance films which I'm thinking of making a thread on in the future, as in my opinion, those movies set a terrible example for children. Case in point, if you're against non-intersex people becoming transgender for social reasons, then stop promoting bullshit pagan notions of gender roles, because then you're just perpetuating the problem. You don't need to be sturdy & dirty to be a man, and you don't need to be pretty & clean to be a woman. Also, this is just a thought, but perhaps if we as men all looked to Jesus Christ as our sole role model, promoting a model of masculinity which is gentle, humble, empathetic, and altruistic, albeit still stern and strict when it needs to be as well but only in a matter which is constructive and not destructive, working to serve God above all else, and stopped looking up to entertainers and frauds such as John Wayne, Sean Connery, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Bruce Willis, Tom Cruise, or Jordan Peterson, perhaps more males, as well as more females, wouldn't feel a need to go through a gender transition, because they wouldn't feel like an outcast based on their gender. Just a thought.
Now, I'm sure there are other social reasons besides the ones I brought up which may cause a person to become transgender. It could also perhaps have something to do with their family. It could be other reasons, I'm not one to judge, as again, I'm not transgender, I have no clue what it's like to be transgender. Not only that, but I wouldn't imagine the "sturdy & dirty" masculine model would be the primary cause pushing these biological males to transition into females if they're still going to be partaking in a sport, although again I could be wrong. This is all just from my observation and knowledge regarding this subject.
What is your opinion regarding this subject? Again, be respectful and rational if your answer is "no", and be aware of who may be reading your rebuttal.
The thing about intersex is that it isn’t about a persons gender. For example an intersex person can live they’re lives a woman/man they’re whole lives without even knowing it such as the case of Caster Semaya despite being born with testes and external female reproductive organs aka a vagina. My problem with this conversation is neither debating parties can really seem to have it without being transphobic in the process and making trans people specially trans women come off as this superhumans one comparison to all cisgender women. Sports is all about physical advantages that are dependent on your body type and we see this with athletes with Micheal Phelps and his less physically advantageous cis men compatriots on the sport.
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Post by crystalmetheny0428 on May 27, 2022 6:11:14 GMT 10
Disclaimer: This topic at hand is a very sensitive topic for many people. If your answer to the question is "no", please be rational and respectful in your rebuttal, and be aware of how any trans person who might read your statement may react.
I was watching on one live TV show today where a poll was asked, and viewers answered online, whether trans people should participate in women's sports. The vast majority voted "No", voting along the lines that allowing trans people to compete in women's sports puts women at a serious disadvantage. This narrative is not only being promoted by conservatives, but also a faction of feminists as well, colloquially known as TERFs (Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists). Their concerns are that those who are born biological male have serious physical advantages due to bone structure, and that it's fallacious to think that pumping estrogen into them is going to fix that, as estrogen is not a weakening hormone contrary to popular belief, matter of fact the reason that old ladies are as frail as they are is because they lack estrogen. There are also, of course, those on the right who are against transgender people competing in women's sports for obvious reasons of transphobia, as well as belief that transgenders don't exist because trans women still have Y chromosomes.
Here's my piece on this. Now, I don't understand everything about what makes a person transgender as I am not transgender myself, and I apologize in advance if I offend anyone here, as that is not my intention. This is just my opinion garnered from my knowledge on this subject.
To me, I'm only for transgender people competing in women's sports if they have a biological basis for their transition, if they were born intersex. Intersex is if they are physically one gender but have more biological traits of another gender. Common cases of this include boys producing estrogen as their primary growth hormone, and girls producing testosterone as their primary growth hormone. This is especially common with boys who have multiple older brothers, as their fetus is washed in estrogen while in their mother's womb, this could perhaps be due to the mother's womb not having much testosterone left over from having too many boys beforehand, but I could be wrong. Rarer cases of this include boys being born with ovaries, or girls being born with testicles. These cases, like I mentioned, are rare, but they do happen. Also, for conservatives who follow the "trans women still have Y chromosomes" argument, they should learn that it's possible for cis women to be born with Y chromosomes as well, so the narrative of XX for women and XY for men is actually quite fallacious.
Case in point, if there is a biological basis for their transition, then I am all for it, although I do think there should also perhaps be an emphasis on not only hormone therapy and genital transition, but also surgically altering their bodies to match the gender they have transitioned into, which is easier to do now than it used to be due to the technology we now have at hand. A trans woman of this facet should be fine competing in women's sports, as they shouldn't have any biological physical advances at that point, and should be at a level playing field with all of the cis women they are playing against.
Now, for those that transition because of social reasons, and have little to no biological basis behind their transition, that's where I personally disagree with it, and can understand TERF concerns relating to these athletes participating in women's sports, although I still think that these facets of transgender people should still be treated with kindness and respect regardless.
However, conservatives have no room to talk regarding the social facet, because their pagan models of masculinity & feminity are the primary facets perpetuating this situation by promoting the bullshit notion that men need to be sturdy & dirty and women need to be pretty & clean. I've already discussed this in a previous thread of mine, but if these conservatives are ones to cling to Christianity, they have no room to talk. Jesus Christ, the ultimate male role model, was one who showed his emotions (even wept), taught about turning the other cheek and taking up one's cross, was gentle and empathetic, and requested that all praise should be reserved for God and not for any man. Not only that, but a Christian man cannot consider themselves an "Alpha Male", because God is the Alpha and the Omega, and they also cannot have sex with a bunch of women to prove themselves a stud, because adultery is a sin which specifically violates one of the Ten Commandments. This conservative obsession with "sturdy and dirty" masculinity is rooted in paganism, not in Christianity, that's also why many of these conservatives fetishize barbaric ancient cultures such as the Vikings, Spartans, and Romans despite them all being pagan, and the latter one in fact being the facet of paganism that Christ entered the world into. These conservatives are perpetuating this issue in making these specific boys and girls feel like they don't fit as their biological gender, and are pushing them to seek transgenderism as an escape. Not only conservatives, but the entertainment industry and pornography industry are also to blame for this as well, especially the Disney Renaissance films which I'm thinking of making a thread on in the future, as in my opinion, those movies set a terrible example for children. Case in point, if you're against non-intersex people becoming transgender for social reasons, then stop promoting bullshit pagan notions of gender roles, because then you're just perpetuating the problem. You don't need to be sturdy & dirty to be a man, and you don't need to be pretty & clean to be a woman. Also, this is just a thought, but perhaps if we as men all looked to Jesus Christ as our sole role model, promoting a model of masculinity which is gentle, humble, empathetic, and altruistic, albeit still stern and strict when it needs to be as well but only in a matter which is constructive and not destructive, working to serve God above all else, and stopped looking up to entertainers and frauds such as John Wayne, Sean Connery, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Bruce Willis, Tom Cruise, or Jordan Peterson, perhaps more males, as well as more females, wouldn't feel a need to go through a gender transition, because they wouldn't feel like an outcast based on their gender. Just a thought.
Now, I'm sure there are other social reasons besides the ones I brought up which may cause a person to become transgender. It could also perhaps have something to do with their family. It could be other reasons, I'm not one to judge, as again, I'm not transgender, I have no clue what it's like to be transgender. Not only that, but I wouldn't imagine the "sturdy & dirty" masculine model would be the primary cause pushing these biological males to transition into females if they're still going to be partaking in a sport, although again I could be wrong. This is all just from my observation and knowledge regarding this subject.
What is your opinion regarding this subject? Again, be respectful and rational if your answer is "no", and be aware of who may be reading your rebuttal.
The thing about intersex is that it isn’t about a persons gender. For example an intersex person can live they’re lives a woman/man they’re whole lives without even knowing it such as the case of Caster Semaya despite being born with testes and external female reproductive organs aka a vagina. My problem with this conversation is neither debating parties can really seem to have it without being transphobic in the process and making trans people specially trans women come off as this superhumans one comparison to all cisgender women. Sports is all about physical advantages that are dependent on your body type and we see this with athletes with Micheal Phelps and his less physically advantageous cis men compatriots on the sport. yea, people don’t even know what intersex is lol. people just think it’s hermaphrodites
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Post by carcar on May 27, 2022 6:19:16 GMT 10
The thing about intersex is that it isn’t about a persons gender. For example an intersex person can live they’re lives a woman/man they’re whole lives without even knowing it such as the case of Caster Semaya despite being born with testes and external female reproductive organs aka a vagina. My problem with this conversation is neither debating parties can really seem to have it without being transphobic in the process and making trans people specially trans women come off as this superhumans one comparison to all cisgender women. Sports is all about physical advantages that are dependent on your body type and we see this with athletes with Micheal Phelps and his less physically advantageous cis men compatriots on the sport. yea, people don’t even know what intersex is lol. people just think it’s hermaphrodites I understand it’s rare but intersex people are pretty much the definition of your sex doesn’t define your gender.
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Post by crystalmetheny0428 on Jun 5, 2022 11:03:12 GMT 10
adding on to this, what’s the point of having separate categories if anyone can join whatever one they want
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Post by 10slover on Jun 5, 2022 12:19:15 GMT 10
Imagine if they invented a trans only competition!!! Sounds fun to watch!!!
Honestly, i think they should just legalize hormones/roids for everyone already, it would make the games more fun! Like bodybuilding!!!
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