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Post by crystalmetheny0428 on May 27, 2022 9:18:45 GMT 10
cis women don’t masturbate when thinking about themselves in lingerie and acting out gender stereotypes (and yes i’ve heard multiple transbians either say they do this or imply it) So they’re role playing ? You can’t just say all cis women aren’t into a certain thing when there’s now a whole tik tok business coming from other cis women to be more feminine and people buying into it Also anyone wears lingerie to feel sexy, even cis gay men do. How the clothes Simone wear to feel sexy in they’re own mind is up to them including cis women who also enjoy wearing lingerie. Are trans people even allowed to have sexual lives like cis people do or is it going to be boiled down to perversion autogynephilia is a well studied theory going back to the 80’s. i’m not saying that it’s necessarily a bad thing to have autogynephilia because they can’t control it but it’s the fact that people deny it exists that makes people mad. also, the studies that have shown that trans people have the brains of the opposite sex only held true when they controlled for sexuality. so that means that only trans people who are attracted to the same biological sex have the “opposite sex brains,” and this includes cis gay men and lesbians. now, there is also lots of controversy as to whether there really is “male brains and female brains” but that’s a whole other topic
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Post by carcar on May 27, 2022 9:42:44 GMT 10
So they’re role playing ? You can’t just say all cis women aren’t into a certain thing when there’s now a whole tik tok business coming from other cis women to be more feminine and people buying into it Also anyone wears lingerie to feel sexy, even cis gay men do. How the clothes Simone wear to feel sexy in they’re own mind is up to them including cis women who also enjoy wearing lingerie. Are trans people even allowed to have sexual lives like cis people do or is it going to be boiled down to perversion autogynephilia is a well studied theory going back to the 80’s. i’m not saying that it’s necessarily a bad thing to have autogynephilia because they can’t control it but it’s the fact that people deny it exists that makes people mad. also, the studies that have shown that trans people have the brains of the opposite sex only held true when they controlled for sexuality. so that means that only trans people who are attracted to the same biological sex have the “opposite sex brains,” and this includes cis gay men and lesbians. now, there is also lots of controversy as to whether there really is “male brains and female brains” but that’s a whole other topic Autogynephilia is just a flawed theory from the sexologist, Ray Blanchard who interviewed trans women in the 80s and 90s. In his theory he breaks down trans women into 2 groups, essentially “homosexuals transsexuals” and “autogynphlic”(which if you read the description for this type of transgender women, it translates to a narcissistic type that’s in love with themselves). But is falls apart when you think about people who don’t fit neatly into the descriptions who put down. Like for one Blanchard said that HT’s were more attractive and more effeminate since they were kids and chose to transition earlier as opposed to “autogynphlics” what he didn’t count was that plenty of people early in transition trans women were also lesbians who were more attracted to the same gender and not doing it for male validation and trans women who didn’t fit into either description clearly existed. As for your opposite gender brain theory, there’s flaws to it. Are you essentially saying that cis women and cis gay men were born with the same brain structures just because they’re attracted to men when they don’t even relate to they’re sexuality or pursue it in the same way. How is a masculine gay man who’s attracted to other masculine gay man similar to that of a cisgender woman’s sexuality ?
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Post by crystalmetheny0428 on May 27, 2022 9:44:21 GMT 10
autogynephilia is a well studied theory going back to the 80’s. i’m not saying that it’s necessarily a bad thing to have autogynephilia because they can’t control it but it’s the fact that people deny it exists that makes people mad. also, the studies that have shown that trans people have the brains of the opposite sex only held true when they controlled for sexuality. so that means that only trans people who are attracted to the same biological sex have the “opposite sex brains,” and this includes cis gay men and lesbians. now, there is also lots of controversy as to whether there really is “male brains and female brains” but that’s a whole other topic Autogynephilia is just a flawed theory from the sexologist, Ray Blanchard who interviewed trans women in the 80s and 90s. In his theory he breaks down trans women into 2 groups, essentially “homosexuals transsexuals” and “autogynphlic”(which if you read the description for this type of transgender women, it translates to a narcissistic type that’s in love with themselves). But is falls apart when you think about people who don’t fit neatly into the descriptions who put down. Like for one Blanchard said that HT’s were more attractive and more effeminate since they were kids and chose to transition earlier as opposed to “autogynphlics” what he didn’t count was that plenty of people early in transition trans women were also lesbians who were more attracted to the same gender and not doing it for male validation and trans women who didn’t fit into either description clearly existed. As for your opposite gender brain theory, there’s flaws to it. Are you essentially saying that cis women and cis gay men were born with the same brain structures just because they’re attracted to men when they don’t even relate to they’re sexuality or pursue it in the same way. How is a masculine gay man who’s attracted to other masculine gay man similar to that of a cisgender woman’s sexuality ? i’m not saying i believe in the male and female brain thing. personally i don’t think there’s such a thing as a male brain and female brain. i was just saying what the studies show, whether they’re flawed or not. and yes i’ve read his typology and i agree with him. as for the masculine gay thing, tops, or the masculine one, weren’t considered homosexual historically. it was common before roughly the 1960’s for otherwise straight men to have sexual relationships with feminine homosexual males. btw are you trans? anyway, this will be the last comment i’m going to make on this thread because we aren’t going to come to an agreement so going back and forth won’t do anything
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Post by carcar on May 27, 2022 10:11:31 GMT 10
Autogynephilia is just a flawed theory from the sexologist, Ray Blanchard who interviewed trans women in the 80s and 90s. In his theory he breaks down trans women into 2 groups, essentially “homosexuals transsexuals” and “autogynphlic”(which if you read the description for this type of transgender women, it translates to a narcissistic type that’s in love with themselves). But is falls apart when you think about people who don’t fit neatly into the descriptions who put down. Like for one Blanchard said that HT’s were more attractive and more effeminate since they were kids and chose to transition earlier as opposed to “autogynphlics” what he didn’t count was that plenty of people early in transition trans women were also lesbians who were more attracted to the same gender and not doing it for male validation and trans women who didn’t fit into either description clearly existed. As for your opposite gender brain theory, there’s flaws to it. Are you essentially saying that cis women and cis gay men were born with the same brain structures just because they’re attracted to men when they don’t even relate to they’re sexuality or pursue it in the same way. How is a masculine gay man who’s attracted to other masculine gay man similar to that of a cisgender woman’s sexuality ? i’m not saying i believe in the male and female brain thing. personally i don’t think there’s such a thing as a male brain and female brain. i was just saying what the studies show, whether they’re flawed or not. and yes i’ve read his typology and i agree with him. btw are you trans? I don’t believe in the existence of a male or female brain either. The whole theory just sounds like a confusing observation from a cisgender man’s observation about trans women and pathologising they're sexuality and experiences. I am non-binary
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Post by rainbow on May 27, 2022 10:38:25 GMT 10
I don't think anyone's trying to deny the existence of trans people or say that they're weirder than cis people or anything like that. I think what crystalmetheny0428 is talking about is biological men who dress up as women not because they're actually trans or because they experience legit gender dysphoria, but because they're sexually turned on by the idea of being a woman. These people aren't actually legit trans-women, they're usually fetishists. And at first it might seem like this fetishism is harmless. But it becomes a problem when they start invading women's spaces and that's where people start getting uncomfortable. They make actual trans-women look bad. If they want to dress up as actual women and play out their sexual fantasies or whatever, then they should keep it in a private space.
crystalmetheny0428 likes this
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Post by al on May 27, 2022 11:02:50 GMT 10
I think it's normal and okay to not want to be exposed to fetish material or general prolonged sexual arousal in a public setting.
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Post by carcar on May 27, 2022 11:12:06 GMT 10
I don't think anyone's trying to deny the existence of trans people or say that they're weirder than cis people or anything like that. I think what crystalmetheny0428 is talking about is biological men who dress up as women not because they're actually trans or because they experience legit gender dysphoria, but because they're sexually turned on by the idea of being a woman. These people aren't actually legit trans-women, they're usually fetishists. And at first it might seem like this fetishism is harmless. But it becomes a problem when they start invading women's spaces and that's where people start getting uncomfortable. They make actual trans-women look bad. If they want to dress up as actual women and play out their sexual fantasies or whatever, then they should keep it in a private space. How do we as a society tell the difference from legit trans women and cross dressers by those standards ? It’s not like we can read minds. Are we suggesting we ask every person who looks trans(doesn’t pass as cis) to lo go into women’s because they’re going to make people uncomfortable?
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Post by crystalmetheny0428 on May 27, 2022 11:44:53 GMT 10
I don't think anyone's trying to deny the existence of trans people or say that they're weirder than cis people or anything like that. I think what crystalmetheny0428 is talking about is biological men who dress up as women not because they're actually trans or because they experience legit gender dysphoria, but because they're sexually turned on by the idea of being a woman. These people aren't actually legit trans-women, they're usually fetishists. And at first it might seem like this fetishism is harmless. But it becomes a problem when they start invading women's spaces and that's where people start getting uncomfortable. They make actual trans-women look bad. If they want to dress up as actual women and play out their sexual fantasies or whatever, then they should keep it in a private space. How do we as a society tell the difference from legit trans women and cross dressers by those standards ? It’s not like we can read minds. Are we suggesting we ask every person who looks trans(doesn’t pass as cis) to lo go into women’s because they’re going to make people uncomfortable? what’s the point of having separate bathrooms if anyone can go in whichever one they want
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Post by carcar on May 27, 2022 11:49:10 GMT 10
How do we as a society tell the difference from legit trans women and cross dressers by those standards ? It’s not like we can read minds. Are we suggesting we ask every person who looks trans(doesn’t pass as cis) to lo go into women’s because they’re going to make people uncomfortable? what’s the point of having separate bathrooms if anyone can go in whichever one they want That’s not the question I asked, I said how do we tell the difference between a fetishizing cross dresser and a transgender woman ?
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Post by crystalmetheny0428 on May 27, 2022 11:51:46 GMT 10
what’s the point of having separate bathrooms if anyone can go in whichever one they want That’s not the question I asked, I said how do we tell the difference between a fetishizing cross dresser and a transgender woman ? i’m replying to the last part of your comment. but anyway, i can usually tell the difference but of course there’s no way to prove it. you can’t tell me that someone like caitlyn jenner or riley dennis is the same as someone like nikki’s tutorials. huge difference
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Post by carcar on May 27, 2022 11:52:30 GMT 10
I think it's normal and okay to not want to be exposed to fetish material or general prolonged sexual arousal in a public setting. I’m confused, how would someone going about they’re day walking assuming that’s all they’re doing be showing arousal in a public setting ?
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Post by carcar on May 27, 2022 11:55:27 GMT 10
That’s not the question I asked, I said how do we tell the difference between a fetishizing cross dresser and a transgender woman ? i’m replying to the last part of your comment. but anyway, i can usually tell the difference but of course there’s no way to prove it. you can’t tell me that someone like caitlyn jenner or riley dennis is the same as someone like nikki’s tutorials or eden the doll. huge difference Yeah because they transitioned later in life and don’t pass as cis obviously. Not to mention Eden the doll transitioned in a time when being transgender was becoming more acceptable in the mainstream and had more or less accepting parents who let her express her feminity despite being still seen as a boy. Even that didn’t shield her from getting hartases once she got robbed and people refusing to help her when they figured out she was trans. Caitlyn Jenner grew up in 60s clearly the infancy ages of modern LGBT rights Not to mention Caitlyn Jenner has overall had more or less similar views on transition as conservative right wing republicans who always misgender her
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Post by rainbow on May 27, 2022 12:02:31 GMT 10
I don't think anyone's trying to deny the existence of trans people or say that they're weirder than cis people or anything like that. I think what crystalmetheny0428 is talking about is biological men who dress up as women not because they're actually trans or because they experience legit gender dysphoria, but because they're sexually turned on by the idea of being a woman. These people aren't actually legit trans-women, they're usually fetishists. And at first it might seem like this fetishism is harmless. But it becomes a problem when they start invading women's spaces and that's where people start getting uncomfortable. They make actual trans-women look bad. If they want to dress up as actual women and play out their sexual fantasies or whatever, then they should keep it in a private space. How do we as a society tell the difference from legit trans women and cross dressers by those standards ? It’s not like we can read minds. Are we suggesting we ask every person who looks trans(doesn’t pass as cis) to lo go into women’s because they’re going to make people uncomfortable? I mean I think it's pretty simple. A trans-woman has dysphoria and doesn't want to be in a male body. They want to be seen as a woman. They're not necessarily turned on by the thought of being a woman. Someone who is autogynephilic is turned on by the thought of being a woman and they don't do it because they have gender dysphoria. They do it because it's a fetish. Unless you're asking how we can tell the difference in terms of appearance. Normally a trans-woman will put in more effort to look like a woman since they're the ones with legit dysphoria. They're more likely to to undergo medical transition.
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Post by al on May 27, 2022 12:05:25 GMT 10
I think it's normal and okay to not want to be exposed to fetish material or general prolonged sexual arousal in a public setting. I’m confused, how would someone going about they’re day walking assuming that’s all they’re doing be showing arousal in a public setting ? There are people who have described this as their experience. There are also physical signs. Such as b0ners.
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Post by carcar on May 27, 2022 12:08:26 GMT 10
How do we as a society tell the difference from legit trans women and cross dressers by those standards ? It’s not like we can read minds. Are we suggesting we ask every person who looks trans(doesn’t pass as cis) to lo go into women’s because they’re going to make people uncomfortable? I mean I think it's pretty simple. A trans-woman has dysphoria and doesn't want to be in a male body. They want to be seen as a woman. They're not necessarily turned on by the thought of being a woman. Someone who is autogynephilic is turned on by the thought of being a woman and they don't do it because they have gender dysphoria. They do it because it's a fetish. Unless you're asking how we can tell the difference in terms of appearance. Normally a trans-woman will put in more effort to look like a woman since they're the ones with legit dysphoria. They're more likely to to undergo medical transition. Undergoing medical transiting is easier said then done considering not everyone can afford it, not all trans women can manage to look hyper fem(cis passable) regardless how much they try and it seems to be these un passing trans women who bear the brunt of transphobia who get labeled as autogynphelic. If cis women who are masculine don’t get they’re womanhood attacked why are trans women attacked for it ?
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